Committee Programme, Report on Oversight Visit to Police Stations and Central Firearm Registry in Gauteng

Meeting report

Committee Business and Programme
The Chairperson outlined that the Committee would next week meet with the State Information Technology Agency (SITA) and the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) to get a full picture of the SA Police Service (SAPS)-related projects. This would also be used for preparations for the budget vote. On 24 and 25 March, there would be a summit on firearms control in SA. On Friday, the Draft White Paper on Police and the Firearms Amendment Act was published on the website of the Civilian Secretariat for Police (CSP) for public comment. This would soon be published in the Government Gazette. These documents were important for Committee work in the next parliamentary term after the recess. A formal briefing from the CSP would have to be received on the White Paper on Police. There was also the study tour to prepare the Committee for the Firearms Amendment Act process.  Parliament needed at least three months notice for when a Committee intended to embark on a study tour. The Committee would make the necessary submission next week. End of July, beginning of August was a possible timeframe for when the tour could be expected should it be approved.  He urged Members to read through the White Paper and Firearms Amendment Act for possible points of discussion during the firearms summit. Hopefully the Members would receive a proposed programme for the Committee’s work in the next parliamentary term by next week. 

Ms D Kohler Barnard (DA) noted that Mr Robert McBride, Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID) Executive Director, had asked to address the Committee. When would this be scheduled? When would the Minister’s determination of the Nkandla money to be paid back by President come before the Committee? She heard that SAPS was planning on giving R40 million for a singing competition for SAPS members. R5 million had already been paid per province in addition to the R40 mil. She could find no budget or line item for this expenditure and asked if anybody in the Committee heard of this.  Some police stations did not have water or electricity yet money was being spent on this.

No one in the Committee knew anything about this.

The Chairperson explained the Minister indicated a full report on the Nkandla money determination would be ready by the end of March 2015. This flows from the Ad Hoc Committee set up to consider the report of the President regarding the security upgrades at his Nkandla private residence. In terms of Parliament’s Announcements, Tabling and Committees (ATC), the report was referred to the Portfolio Committee on Police. The Committee now just received the notice of an interim report to say the matter was being investigated. The Committee was more concerned with the critical Infrastructure Bill, previously the National Key Points Act, which was supposed to be amended last year. This was part of the Committee’s legislative programme. The Committee would wait for the formal copy of the report and then deal with it. Mr McBride did write to the Chairperson on the rendition case which was received on Friday. The Chairperson thought the matter should not be dealt with in a piecemeal fashion because the matter of the suspension of Lt. Gen. Anwa Dramat (head of the Directorate for Priority Crimes Investigation /Hawks) might still come before the Committee after the Speaker requested the Minister of Police table the request of a section 17 (SAPS Act) process - the rules stated such a request must come from the Minister to the Speaker when the Minister in fact directed the request to the Committee. The issues Mr McBride referred to were part and parcel of the matter of Lt. Gen. Dramat’s suspension.  Furthermore, there was currently an appeal in the North Gauteng High Court with regard to some of the suspensions in the Hawks. The Chairperson’s opinion was to let the matter play itself out and await instruction. Also from the point of principle, the Committee could not call role-players in high profile cases to provide the Committee’s view simply because it was in the media. He was thinking here of cases such as those of Oscar Pistorius and Shrien Dewani. The Committee could however engage on all high profile cases from the year under review during the Annual Report process. The Committee would be put in a difficult spot to deal with the request from Mr McBride at this stage.

Ms A Molebatsi (ANC) agreed with the Chairperson on the basis that there were some processes in place which should be given time to unfold.

Ms Kohler Barnard thought the Chairperson was taking a well-reasoned line on the matter – it was bizarre for the Committee to meddle in the middle of a case. However, there were already court cases which said the Minister’s handlings of the suspensions were unlawful but there was an appeal. She was personally uncomfortable with the Minister’s request for the Committee to institute processes to fire Lt. Gen. Dramat even after the process had gone to court – it was as if the Committee was asked to speak to the matter after the fact and justify what the Minister had done. The further the Committee stayed out of the matter, the better and it was best to leave it to the courts. It was her opinion that if the court found the Minister in contempt, it was his problem not the Committee’s.

The Chairperson said he was not aware of a singing competition but the Committee could get the Auditor-General to provide more information on this. Then the matter could be engaged on.

Ms Kohler Barnard heard that bits and pieces were taken off programmes and line items to reach the amount of R40 mil – this was a huge problem.

Draft Committee Report on the Oversight Visit to Police Stations and the Central Firearm Registry (CFR) in Gauteng
The Committee went through the draft report page by page.

Members’ highlighted minor issues relating duplication of words, ensuring that all Members present were duly noted as such, spelling errors, incorrect tense, the need for titles to be capitalised and general grammar.   

The Draft Committee Report on the Oversight Visit to Police Stations and the Central Firearm Registry (CFR) in Gauteng was adopted with minor amendments by Ms M Mmola (ANC) and seconded by Mr Z Mbhele (DA).

Draft Committee Minutes dated 20 August 2014
The Committee went through the draft minutes page by page.

Members highlighted minor issues related to incorrect spelling, inconsistency of format, breaking large chunks of text in paragraphs and problems with tense.

It was decided the draft minutes dated 20 August 2014 were of too poor a standard to be adopted and so needed to be reworked completely before the Committee could adopt it.

Draft Committee Minutes dated 19 September 2014
The Committee went through the draft minutes page by page.

Members highlighted minor issues related to format and punctuation, incorrect spelling of SAPS delegation member’s names and removing some words to allow for easier reading.

The draft Committee minutes dated 19 September 2014 was adopted with minor amendments by Ms Molebatsi and seconded by Ms Mmola.

Draft Committee Minutes dated 15 October 2014
The Committee went through the draft minutes page by page.

Members highlighted minor issues related to incorrect spelling of Member’s names and inconsistency of format. 

The draft Committee minutes dated 15 October 2014 was adopted with minor amendments by Mr Mbhele and seconded by Ms Mmola.

Draft Committee Minutes dated 16 October 2014
The Committee went through the draft minutes page by page.

Members highlighted minor issues related to incorrect spelling and inconsistency of format.

The draft Committee minutes dated 16 October 2014 was adopted with minor amendments by Ms Molebatsi and seconded by Ms Mmola.

Draft Committee Minutes dated 22 October 2014
The Committee went through the draft minutes page by page.

Members highlighted minor issues related to incorrect spelling of Member’s names, inconsistency of format and incorrect tense. 

The draft Committee minutes dated 22 October 2014 was adopted with minor amendments by Mr Mbhele and seconded by Ms Mmola.

Draft Committee Minutes dated 29 October 2014
The Committee went through the draft minutes page by page.

Members highlighted minor issues related to incorrect spelling of Member’s names, incorrect abbreviations, inconsistency of format and incorrect spelling. 

The draft Committee minutes dated 29 October 2014 was adopted with minor amendments by Ms Molebatsi and seconded by Ms Mmola.

Draft Committee Minutes dated 31 October 2014
The Committee went through the draft minutes page by page.

Members highlighted minor issues, for example, the incorrect spelling of Member’s names. 

The draft Committee minutes dated 31 October 2014 was adopted with minor amendments.

Draft Committee Minutes dated 29 January 2015
The Committee went through the draft minutes page by page.

Members highlighted minor issues relating to the inconsistency of format, the incorrect spelling of Member’s names, general grammar and incorrect tense.

The draft Committee minutes dated 29 January 2015 was adopted with minor amendments.

Draft Committee Minutes dated 18 February 2015
The Committee went through the draft minutes page by page.

Members highlighted minor issues relating to the inconsistency of format, duplication, writing abbreviations and acronyms in full the first time it was mentioned, general grammar and incorrect tense.

The draft Committee minutes dated 18 February 2015 was adopted with minor amendments by Ms Mmola and seconded by Mr L Ramatlakane (ANC).

The meeting was adjourned.