IPID & Civilian Secretariat for Police progress reports on Police Portfolio Committee 2014 recommendations

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29 January 2015
Chairperson: Mr F Beukman (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

The Committee was briefed by IPID on their responses to the BRRR recommendations. The briefing covered financial, administrative, investigations and information management and legal recommendations.

Members questioned IPID's responses to recent acts of police misconduct in the attacks on foreign shop owners in SA townships and if the Directorate was planning any proactive investigations into these cases. The level of consultation and coordination between the Directorate and the CSP was questioned, given the importance of their relationship for the purpose of SAPS oversight. Members were concerned about the impact of under spending and possible corruption in IPID with investigators colluding with the very SAPS members they were supposed to be investigating. Linked to this were questions about effective deterrents for police members involved in crime and corruption, as well as IPID being treated with contempt by SAPS. A key point of discussion was the level and impact of vacancies, retention strategies for holding onto institutional memory. The IPID Executive Director was Member also asked a question on the IPID report into Lt. Gen. Dramat. 

The Civilian Secretariat for Police briefed the Committee on its responses to the 2014 BRRR recommendations. The thorough presentation covered all the programmes of the Secretariat including finances and administration where spending patterns and certain transactions were highlighted. Vacancies were explained in terms of particular posts, patterns and action plans. The role of partnerships was discussed along with policy and research priorities. Relevant legislation was discussed as well as monitoring and evaluation.

Members posed questions about budget patterns, links between stolen goods and second hand outlets, outstanding reports and the use of innovative technology. Members were particularly concerned with vacancies, why these were occurring, why were staff leaving and the changing of post grading. Community Policing Forums were also discussed in terms of the need for a policy foundation, resourcing, impact analysis and the kind of projects conducted. 

Meeting report

IPID Progress Report on BRRR
Mr Robert McBride, IPID Executive Director, began by noting IPID appeared before the Committee on 22 October 2014 where the Committee made recommendations for implementation by IPID. IPID sent detailed responses on 4 December 2014 and was invited to present before the Committee a status report.

Looking at financial recommendations, it was recommended IPID provide a copy of the financial turnaround strategy of the Department by end of November 2014. The strategy must include measures for IPID to spend its budget effectively and efficiently. On this matter, the overall spending performance for the third quarter period ending 31 December 2014 was 58% against the expected spending target of 75% of the allocated budget. Although the spending trend was within the allocated budget, the Department had performed below the expected spending target by 17%, excluding the commitments. The spending trends ranged from 22% to 60% in programmes, with the economic classification ranging from 45% of transfers and subsidies to 62% of compensation of employees. With the review that was done during the adjustment budget on the compensation of employees, it was expected that even though the actual expenditure was at 62%, the implementation of budgeted performance bonuses and pay progression for staff members as well as expenditure related to all vacant positions that were recently filled will improve the spending in this item. Whilst with regards to goods and services, the measures that were currently in place to procure all the required working resources, particularly for investigators and also for those who had recently joined the Department, the expenditure will drastically move towards the satisfactory level once all the procurement and delivery had been finalised. The process was underway to transfer the skills development levy in line with the National Treasury directive. The delays were mainly caused by the issuing of an invoice and other compliance documents by the receiving Department, however this had been addressed and the transfer will be implemented. Bulk procurement had been planned mainly to address the shortage of investigative equipment which in some cases affected the work of investigators. A needs analysis had been performed to determine the required items. The remaining budget in machinery and equipment and potential internal shifting from goods and services will address the funding of the needs. The 58% reported in machinery and equipment was expected to improve significantly taking into consideration the commitments. IPID was also recommended to fill the necessary vacancies relating to the internal audit and financial environment without delay and report before the end of the financial year. On this recommendation, the internal audit candidate had been appointed and she will assume duty on the 1st of February 2015. The Head of Asset Management and the Head of SCM were appointed on 1 September 2014 and 1 October 2014 respectively.

Within administration, IPID was recommended to undertake an impact study on the measurement of the community outreach programmes conducted by the Department and provide a report before the end of the financial year. Currently the impact of community outreach events cannot be measured scientifically, but at each outreach, a template had been developed to try and measure the reach of our events in terms of numbers and communities visited. An analysis of the information collected will be done before the end of the financial year. The Committee recommended that IPID should fill all vacancies within the organisation as soon as possible and that IPID should aim to have its vacancy rate below 10%. The vacancy rate had dropped from 23% during the second quarter to 17.5% at the end of the third quarter. The process of filling all vacant posts was underway. All positions were advertised in December 2014, the short listing had started. Vast improvement was expected in the next two months. The retention and recruitment policy was being finalised and will be adapted at the next MANCO as soon as it done it will be sent to the Committee.  The Committee recommended that the Consultative Forum between IPID and the CSP must be held before the end of November 2014 and that a full report be made available to the Committee about the outcomes of such meeting. The IPID and CSP had a joint Consultative Forum Planning meeting on 25 November 2014, during the meeting the departments discussed the Terms of Reference (ToR) for the Consultative Forum and the official launch of the Forum, which was scheduled for 6 March 2015.  The Minister will be invited to the launch. The ToR will be signed during the official launch ceremony. The Committee encouraged the Directorate to improve the gender equity within its Senior Management Structure (SMS) and bring it to 50 % improved gender parity in line with government priorities 2014/15 financial year. The Committee also recommended that the Directorate should finalise the Information and Communication Plan as a matter of urgency. The percentage of people with disabilities had improved from 0.9% at the end of the second quarter to 1.5% at the end of the third quarter. This percentage was expected to improve before the end of the fourth quarter. The percentage of women representation at SMS level improved from 39% at the end of the second quarter to 44% at the end of the third quarter. This percentage was expected to improve in the next two months as more SMS positions were being filled. The ICT Governance Plan had been signed off by the Executive Director and implementation has commenced.

Mr McBride turned to investigations and information management noting the Committee recommended that IPID tracked all recommendations to SAPS and followed up on all such recommendations and made the responses available in quarterly reports to the Committee. IPID will, as part of their quarterly reporting to the Committee, report on the responses received from SAPS for the period. IPID, SAPS and the CSP had a Recommendation Workshop on 26 November 2014 in order to address the challenges experienced by all parties and identified a Task Team consisting of members from the relevant stakeholders to meet and prepare the presentation to the Committee on the Resolutions that were reached by all concerned. The Task team, consisted of IPID, SAPS, MPS and the CSP and met on 11 December 2014 and 15 January 2015 to finalise deliberations. The Committee recommended that the IPID must improve its performance on predetermined performance targets, especially within the Investigation and Information Management Programme. The delivery on predetermined targets should be optimised to ensure effective and efficient delivery on Government Priorities. A report was to be made to the Committee on how the IPID intended to improve on its predetermined objectives by end of November 2014. An Executive Directive had been issued that dealt with targets setting backlogs, quality of investigations and progress reports. IPID regulations were being reviewed, especially in regard to time frames. The Committee recommended that the Directorate should make a copy of its Service Delivery Improvement Plan (SDIP) available to the Committee by the end of November 2014. This SDIP was submitted to the Committee on 4 December 2014. The Committee recommended that the Systemic Corruption Strategic document of the IPID should be finalised before the end of the financial year. The Draft Document was in the process of being finalised, which included reviewing the existing documents. The reviewed document will be adopted at the next MANCO. The final document will be forwarded to the Committee. The Committee offered its full support to all efforts made by the Directorate to improve its achievement of performance targets, including the revision of the 90 days target for the conclusion of all investigations.

With legal issues, the Committee recommended that all outstanding appointments to the Legal Services programme be made without delay. IPID must report on such appointments before the end of the financial year in March 2015. Interviews had been held for the two Director vacancies and processes for appointment were currently underway. Interviews for the Chief Director: Legal Services were scheduled for 23 January 2015. The Committee recommended that IPID attended SAPS disciplinary hearings and report thereon. IPID will attend some of the disciplinary hearings subject to available capacity.

Mr McBride concluded by stating that substantial progress was made in implementation of Committee recommendations. The implementation of the financial turnaround strategy was currently underway, Employment Equity targets were expected to improve substantially by the end of the financial year, consensus was reached with SAPS, MPS, CSP and IPID on IPID recommendations and performance was expected to improve by the end of the financial year.IPID will report on the final Systemic Corruption Strategy by the end of the financial year as well as report on the Impact Analysis of Community Outreach events by the end of the financial year. In addition, the Consultative Forum Meeting was held in November 2014 with the launch to take place in March 2015.

The Chairperson questioned IPID’s response to criminal behaviour and criminal acts in SAPS in light of recent attacks in Soweto, Alexandria and other townships. Was there a possibility of a proactive check IPID could conduct with this and if not, why not?  He noted the lack of a consultative forum between IPID and the CSP affected oversight over SAPS and affected coordination and this raised questions about the money spent on the bodies. Commitment was needed to get the process moving because when he listened to SAPS, the service had moves in place.

Mr McBride noted the question was twofold: (1) what were the police doing and (2) what the community was doing or the perpetrators of the looting and xenophobia highlighted in the instances given by the Chairperson. All police were au fait with what they were supposed to do and the law they were meant to uphold. IPID had been targeting, over the last few months, to appeal to people to keep all forms of protest within the law as all individuals had a legal responsibility if involved in engagements. This message was also communicated in newspapers which had high circulation numbers like the Sun. Communities as well as the police were bound to act within a certain way. In the cases of looting, there were societal issues involved and the police could not be the only ones reprimanded.  

The Chairperson asked for clarity that there was no investigation currently being run into these recent incidents. Was the corruption around illegal firearms perhaps an issue of interest for IPID to follow up on? He wanted to get a sense of proactive investigations instituted by IPID within the SAPS domain.

Mr McBride stated IPID resisted the temptation to handle matters collectively but chose to handle each offence individually on its own merits. IPID was reluctant to assume everyone was acting in concert. Allegations of corruption involving the firearms registry fell under systemic corruption. IPID’s general motto was to work on cases with low volume, high value and maximum impact – this was how investigations were prioritised.  If a complaint on any misconduct or criminal activity, in the firearms registry for example, was received it would be investigated but it might to receive the necessary attention some might perceive as immediate because IPID might be caught up in what it viewed as a higher impact investigation.

Mr Shaik Emam was confused by the statement that there was under-spending which did not have an impact – there should be consequences for under-spending. Were the consequences for SAPS members found guilty of corruption enough to deter any future corrupt actions or as a deterrent for others? Was enough being done in terms of sentencing and the punishment metered out?

Mr McBride indicated that what was highlighted about under-spending was the trend detected in a financial year along with the necessary corrective measures. As executive director of IPID, he stated if there was one instance of corruption, the sentences and sanctions were not enough.

Ms Kohler Barnard noted that when the Independent Complaints Directorate (ICD) existed, SAPS treated it with absolute contempt and did not implement recommendations. Well over 80% of ICD recommendations were literally ignored even if some SAPS members were guilty as sin. She wanted to hear that SAPS took the recommendation more seriously because she repeatedly heard of SAPS members found guilty of various offences but were simply moved to another station or province. She sought some input and reassurance that things had improved. While IPID was present, she asked if the IPID report exonerated Lt. Gen. Dramat.  

Mr McBride noticed an improvement in the cooperation with SAPS through the various workshops held. It was not only an attitude problem which resulted in perception of contempt but it was also an issue of differing interpretation which was sought to be cleared up with the relevant stakeholders and partners. With the mysterious and Holy Grail IPID report, it unfortunately could not be realised or commented on as it was still alive docket with the NPA. He could say IPID recommended prosecution for at least one member of the DPCI. IPID did not want to hamper the decision making of the NPA nor create the impression such serious allegations were handled in the absence of thoroughness. The investigation was conducted thoroughly, cut to the bone and he was quite proud of the recommendations made. He awaited the outcome of the NPA. The Minister and National Commissioner were in possession of IPIDs recommendations in terms of the disciplinary aspects.

Mr Mbhele asked about recently made appointments and the impending plans to fill the vacancies. He was curious to know if the majority of appointments were people from other places in the public sector or did they come from outside the civil service. What measures and prospects were in place for long-term retention to build the capacity for institutional memory?

Mr McBride said appointments were a mix of some people from SAPS and some from other aspects of the civil service. There was a combination of youth and maturity with different experiences which people bring. The major obstacle against retention was the level of the department and in particular the provisions of section 23 which provided the conditions of service of inspectors in IPID to be on par with that of SAPS. This was a key issue. IPID found itself recruiting and training people only for them to be poached by the Department because the exact same work was offered at a higher level. This was a major obstacle which the Committee could perhaps assist with.  

The Chairperson asked if the performance contracts for the new provincial heads were finalised.

Mr McBride said these contracts were all in place and had been concluded.

Mr Groenewald sought feedback on the availability and user friendliness for the public of compliant forms which were supposed to be available at all police stations. He knew of a number of stations, Klerksdorp for example, where the forms were not available.

Mr McBride indicated there was a lot of common ground in terms of the figures between IPID and SAPS which the Committee would be informed about at tomorrow’s meeting. The two entities tried to converge on most aspects.  

Mr Matthews Sesoko, IPID Chief Director: Investigations, said the IPID Act was very clear with regard to complaints as encapsulated in section 28. When a member of the public went to a police station to complain, the police were bound by law to register a case as would occur with any other normal case. Once the case was opened, section 29 stated the police member was bound to fill in a Form Three for referral to IPID within 24 hours of the opening of the case. Even before the form was submitted, IPID was phoned and informed of a case opened against a police member and the details of the case were relayed. This meant the member of the public was not engaged in filing in forms at police stations – this was the obligation of SAPS. If any member of the public found her/himself trying to open a case of complaint against a police member and the member refused to assist, the member of the public could complain directly to IPID. The IPID investigation would then not only look at the compliant of criminality against the SAPS member but also that he/she refused to open a case on behalf of the member of the public. To reiterate, the form the Member referred to was not for the public to complete but for the police member to submit.

Mr Groenewald understood this but thought that members of the public were obliged to place complaints in writing instead of directly approaching IPID. He asked if these forms were available on the internet for submission by the public.

Mr Sesoko explained the form was meant for the SAPS members to fill in to report the compliant referred to them by a member of the public. There was a similar form which members of the public filled in when directly approaching IPID to register a case. In this way, the member of the public was protected. This changed from the ICD to the new IPID regime were the police itself was used as a fodder to refer complaints. The idea behind this was that police stations were more accessible than IPID offices to report any criminality for investigation.

Mr McBride added that in some instances, members of the public complained directly to IPID through a phone call or email. Very often the complaints were not IPID mandate complaints but the Act compelled IPID to refer the complaints to the competent authority which was done. A complaint was not disallowed because it came directly to the Executive Director or Head of Investigations, for example. Every case was dealt with.

Mr Ramatlakane commended IPID on steps taken to fulfil vacancies. However, the Minister of Finance stated that unfilled vacancies would be frozen or cut. Was IPID not fearful that some posts could no longer be filled in light of the timeframes presented? What was the level of the vacant posts? How did the vacancies impact on the work of IPID?

Mr McBride highlighted IPID had to comply with the prescripts and processes around recruitment in the civil service and this sometimes took time. At times suitable candidates were not found and the recruitment process had to start from the beginning. He preferred this as opposed to being in position where he had to dictate who to appoint. It took time to allow the selection process to run its course through appropriate advertisement, closing dates and capturing the data.

Ms Molebatsi asked how capacity problems were being addressed. Was there ever a situation where IPID’s investigators colluded with SAPS members – the very members under investigation?

Mr McBride said systemic corruption was a complex issue and amounted to people basically using the system which was meant to serve and protect to conduct crime or other misconducts. A number of players were needed to nail the perpetrators and this was not always easy. IPID tried to look at joint operations with other agencies. He indicated there were no collusions between IPID investigators and SAPS members being investigated. There was a system where if there were any queries around an investigator, an investigation was instituted immediately which ran from the office of the Executive Director to ensure there were no doubts about the integrity of the organisation. Attempts at pressure were experienced in one way or another but he could day without an iota of doubt, IPID had managed to repeal the attempted pressure. The word was out there that IPID could not be pressured.

The Chairperson concluded that progress was being made but it would be monitored. Most of the issues were being addressed, which was a good sign, and IPID should continue in this fashion.

CSP Response on BRRR
Mr Hendrick Roberts, CSP Director: Finance, began by looking at the administration, specifically the finances, of the Secretariat, highlighting the state of overall expenditure as of 30 September 2014, 31 December 2014 and 15 January 2015. Members were then taken through expenditure patters. Few measures were implemented in this environment including monthly reporting by Chief Directors on spending including reasons for over/under-spending, procurement and spending plans to be submitted monthly going forward and funds were to be redistributed by the newly established Budget Committee to areas where spending can take place. Special programmes were initiated like a Communication Strategy introducing CSP to public of SA and implementation of the Secretariats own systems and Virtual Private Network was in an advanced stage which would increase spending. Financial Structures and Accountability was in place, funds were transferred and expenditure claimed from SAPS was to be finalised in January 2015 and the transfer of personnel was to happen in February 2015 for 1 March 2015. All BAS and PERSAL structures were in place to do salary and other payments, most financial policies, outstanding policies and delegations were to be signed-off before end of January 2015, there would be fortnightly meetings between CSP and SAPS on progress of the transfer of functions and negotiations were ongoing with Treasury to have LOGIS ready for implementation 1 March/1 April 2015.

 With the possible transactions to go through before the end of the financial year, once the following payments had gone through, a projection of 99.7% will be achieved at the end of this financial year. An order was generated for the full SITA service of over R17,0 million. This could boost goods and services expenditure if all expenditure realized. The Administration Programme was ready to start functioning on its own separate from SAPS which would increase its spending even further as it would be responsible for generic departmental related expenditure e.g. computer time for transversal systems, internet access, telephones (dependent on the switchboard) and other related expenditure.

The compensation of Employees was at 58,4% spending overall and the main reason was the fact that the level 9 and 11 posts were budgeted for on level 10 and 12 respectively. This will increase by R10,5 million (15.1%) with the retrospective payment of upgraded posts in line with Resolution 1 of 2012. If the goods and services spending was as high as anticipated, all savings on the compensation of employees will have to be "viremented" to goods and services.

Mr M Mashibini, CSP Chief Director: Corporate Services and Acting CFO, looked at the status report on vacancies from September to December 2014. As of September 2014 there were 16 vacant posts, 9 posts filled as of the end of December 2014, 7 posts remaining as of December 2014 and 4 transfers and services were terminated from November 2014. With the planned action on these vacancies, 1 post was advertised, 4 were due to be advertised on 23 January 2015, 2 posts were due for short listing before 31 January 2015 and 4 appointments were due but there was a delay because of competency test results and criminal checks. In total, there were 11 current outstanding vacancies. The vacated posts included that of the CFO, which had been advertised, human resource management deputy director after the individual had been transferred to another department and a senior registry clerk after the individual was promotionally transferred to another department. Within the office of the secretary, the vacancies included a deputy DG, director: fraud and anti-corruption and an administrative clerk. A post for deputy director for policy development also needed o be filled.

Ms Reneva Fourie, CSP Secretary, discussed the consultative forum noting a meeting was held between IPID and the Secretariat in November 2014 and the terms of reference were drafted for collaboration but the launch of the consultative forum was postponed from January 2015 to March 2015 due to other pressing priorities.

Another official from the CSP presented on the partnerships unit looking at the resourcing/funding of Community Police Forums (CPFs) noting the establishment of a Task Team to address CPF policy issues held three meetings. The CPF training committee was also established for an emphasis on the representivity principle with broader stakeholder engagement with vulnerable groups including women, youth, children. Also discussed was:
- The resourcing of CPFs
- Branding of CPFs
- Redefining criteria for membership
- Developing Community Safety Plan/Programme of Action with cost
- Enhancing marketing through media and social platforms, malls, key entry points (airports) and creating and intensifying awareness.
-  Advocate for active-citizen participation through izimbizos
- Training of CPFs
- Strengthening sector crime forums
- Joint support to CPFs by Provincial Departments of Safety, SAPS and Civilian Secretariat for Police at station/community level.

There were varying levels of established Community Safety Forums (CSFs) across municipalities in eight provinces, except in the Free State. Financial commitment had been provided for by some Provincial Departments of Safety and some municipalities to support CSFs programmes and there were enhanced stakeholder engagement in CSF activities in line with policy. Some CSFs had developed Community Safety Plans/Annual Plans in line with municipal Integrated Development Plans (IDP) which was an ongoing process,  some CSFs conducted projects and on a, quarterly basis, some CSFs held quarterly meetings.

With the efficacy of SAPS’s national rural safety strategy, no research was conducted by the Civilian Secretariat for Police on the matter. However, a summit on Rural Safety will be held at the end of March 2015 to address this issue. Thereafter, activities accounting for expenditure were highlighted along with partnerships prioritised in the fourth quarter.

Ms B Omar, CSP Chief Director: Policy and Research, said the Draft White Paper on Security was to be advertised for public comment in late February 2015, Gender Based Violence policies were finalised in the 3rd quarter and there would be commencing of the last round of consultations in February 2015, the firearms project was to be finalised end of March 2015 while preparatory work on the joint firearms workshop with the Committee was completed.

Ms Dawn Bell, CSP Chief Director: Legislation, explained additional staff in the legislation programme would be appointed without delay and all the outstanding legislation would be fast-tracked by the department. Additional staff for the Unit will be done together with Human Resources Unit in Corporate Services. Currently there was a new structure under consideration and it was awaiting approval of the Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA). The filling of new posts will followed after approval of the new structure and the funding of posts. In terms of miscellaneous costs, there were outstanding accounts to Government Printers on passed Acts assented to by the President and the compensation of board members of the DNA Oversight Ethics Board. Additional expenditure will be drawn from the legislation unit with regards to litigation.

The legislation prioritised in the fourth quarter included the Firearms Control Amendment Bill, the Protection of Constitutional Democracy against Terrorism Amendment Bill while various processes of the review of the SAPS Act was underway, pending the outcomes of the White Paper Process.

Ms Millicent Kawuti, CSP Chief Director: Monitoring and Evaluation, stated under spending was due to slow progress in ISM development and deployment but Phase I of the IMS would be finalised by March 2014. Within this programme of M&E, the activities accounting for expenditure included an agreement reached with SAPS and SITA for SAPS will support the Secretariat until it was fully operational with its own secure network supported by SITA. Fourth quarter priorities included the deployment of the ISM phase 1 and phase 2 at the cost of R3.9 million which was an ongoing process.  Police station oversight visits were to be conducted by March 2015, continuous monitoring of the Domestic Violence Act (DVA), business process mapping on complaints management and policy dialogue on police conduct, evaluation of the Fingerprints Act and the launch of the consultative Forum by 20 March 2015.

Mr Shaik Emam noticed half of the CSP’s budget was spent in the first nine months and there was talk the rest of the budget would be spent in the last three months. In simple language this was called dumping and he was seriously concerned by this. He did not know if other departments had the money to divert funds from one programme to another or if this was the correct thing to do. Was under spending a pattern? When could the Committee be certain this pattern would stop? Was there any discussion with cell phone service providers to play a more pivotal role in trying to combat cell phone theft? Added to this was the fact that most crimes were committed through stolen cell phones. He wanted to know why there were vacancies and why were they being advertised so late into the financial year. Why were vacancies not addressed timeously? Were there challenges in recruiting people in this specialised field?

Ms Fourie said it could appear as fiscal dumping but all the activities undertaken were in line with the APP and the priorities of the CSP. This was just an expedition of matters already on the programme which were far behind. The biggest portion of the budget was related to ICT infrastructure which was quite costly. She did not realise this expense and its impact on expenditure pattern. Some of the blockages with spending were also because of the relationship between SAPS and the Secretariat but there had since been significant improvement and realisation that the CSP needed its independent ICT infrastructure. It was quite correct that money could be moved willy-nilly from one programme to another but there was room for virements with Treasury approval – Treasury would not approve the irresponsible movement of money or for the sake of fiscal dumping.

Ms Fourie explained the CSP had not explored the utilisation of cell phone technology to enhance the effectiveness of the Secretariat. It was an innovative idea and she believed the Committee had already picked up on the fact that the CSP was quite antiquated. The Secretariat first needed to establish its own infrastructural base which was being worked on with planned conclusion for the end of March. The next plan was to digitise the monitoring system which was finally being dealt with after being delayed for over a year. Once the basics were in place, like an independent office which was not broken into every second week and ICT system, the Secretariat could start looking at more creative and innovative ways of using other technology to enhance the effectiveness of the CSP.

Ms Fourie turned to vacancies and retention strategies, there was a gap and CSP was losing a lot of people. Members should also understand that the Secretariat moved from being a sub-programme within SAPS to being an independent department.  This meant that, despite ICT systems and transferring   of finances, within in three months, the CSP had to get all financial policies in place, set up a risk and audit committee and the general systems. All of these responsibilities meant that staff was working almost 20 hours a day and this was very tiring for the CFO.

Mr Mbhele asked if the CFO was lost to another department within the public sector or government entirely. He wanted to understand such systemic patterns.

Following on from the previous answer, the CFO did not move to another government department or even another job but just decided that he was tired and needed a break. He was offered other allowances for consideration because government allowed for a month of unpaid leave or sabbatical, as he had been in the public service for a while, but he decided he was tired. There was absolutely nothing the CSP could do to convince him to stay. He was a very good CFO with ethical practices and was of tremendous support to the Secretariat. It was really sad to see him go.       

Mr Twala was primarily interested in the role the CSP could play in assisting SAPS in overcoming its challenges. He saw the CSP had a budget item for training detectives and asked if the Secretariat had seen in results from this item. Would the item be repeated in the budget this financial year? Policing was a science but people were not coming to grips with this reality and scientific tools were needed to fight crime.    

Mr Ramatlakane sought clarity on the upgrading of posts and the retrospective budgetary implications in terms of the salary scale. How long would it take to really finalise the issue of the CPF and its support? It seemed like a moving target. CPFs were critical for community participation and engagement and needed to be underpinned by policy. This had been spoken about for a long time yet nothing was being done.   

Ms Fourie said the upgrading of posts was negotiated in 2012 but was never implemented. It was important that the decision was activated to comply with the labour court and unions. 

The matter of the CPFs was one of long standing engagement that appeared to be never ending. The policy issues were being looked at as currently the CPF resources were allocated in SAPS but the CSP wanted a shift. This process would still take a while and as mentioned, the White Paper for Police would be taken back to Cabinet. While the paperwork was going there was a critical need to resource the CPFs with cell phones, vehicles and office space. Service providers were being engaged for assistance in this process but it was not within the budget of the CSP. This engagement was quite far and positive so hopefully in the next Committee meeting there would be something substantive to announce. 

Ms Mmola questioned the transfer and termination of services – what were the reasons for the employees leaving?

Ms Molebatsi asked what the “pressing priorities” were which led to the postponement of the launch of the consultative forum. On Committee oversight visits, it was found some CPFs received some funding from municipalities while others did not – why was there no uniformity around this?  Was there a linkage between the anti-stolen goods campaign and second hand goods outlets as many stolen goods were then sold at outlets? She again raised the point that at the end of the month, the DNA legislation would commence yet the board was not established which had to be done a month before the time – this had not yet happen. She sought more information on this point.

Ms Fourie said the pressing priorities were largely around the acting secretary who was statutorily also the chief advisor to the Minister of Police. At the time the acting secretary was assisting the Minister with the Lt. Gen. Dramat issue. Unfortunately the date of the consultative forum had to be postponed but it would definitely take place.

There was a definitely synergy between stolen goods and second hand goods outlets. The CSP was working very closely with SAPS on the matter with SAPS having launched a forum on the matter with a number of key role-players in government and the private sector which met regularly. 

The amendment act of the DNA legislation was operationalised on 31 January. The Minister signed the letters for the establishment of the board but she was unable to say when the first board meeting was going to be but the Committee could be provided with a report in this regard.

Mr Maake asked what types of projects were conducted by CSFs as highlighted in the presentation. He asked if the CSP had an impact analysis on all its awareness activities accounting for expenditure and whether this was used as a gauge of effectiveness.

Mr Mashibini responded that before an impact analysis there needed to be an audit of all CSP implemented policies together with partners. This had already begun with the CSF policy to assess if it was being complied with before an analysis could be done.  Functionality indictors had also been developed to assess the impact of programmes on communities at large. Most of the projects undertaken by the CSFs cut across sector programmes undertaken by various departments at different levels. Specifically, there had been projects to assess the national crime prevention strategy, crime prevention environments, school safety,  drugs, road safety education, ward based support programmes and violence across vulnerable groups.

The Chairperson noted there was still an outstanding report on the station oversights which should have been submitted to the Committee in November – where was this report?  

Ms Kawuti was of the impression that the report had been submitted but it would be done before end of business tomorrow.

The meeting was adjourned.



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