National Youth Development Agency mandate & challenges; Public Service Commission censured, with Deputy Ministers in attendance

Meeting report

National Youth Development Agency (NYDA) briefing on its role and mandate
Mr Yershen Pillay, NYDA chairperson, introduced his delegation as Mr Kenny Morolong, Deputy Chairperson, and Mr Kathutshelo Ramukumba, CEO. Mr Pillay then handed the reins to Mr Ramukumba.

Mr Kathutshelo Ramukumba, NYDA CEO, spoke about the objects, mandate, functions, key performance areas, performance over the years, budget, programmes and areas that require attention.

He said that the National Youth Development Agency derived its mandate from National Youth Development Agency Act, No 54 of 2008, which provides the NYDA with the mandate to be a unitary structure for the implementation of youth development programmes, including determining youth development activities by all stakeholders. The NYDA plays a leading role in all sectors in identifying programmes and initiatives that can address the challenges faced by young people in the country. The NYDA had developed a draft youth development integrated structure for the country during the Fourth Parliament which was presented to the Minister at the time, the current ministry would receive a revised integrated youth development strategy.

They are required to develop guidelines for the implementation of an integrated national youth development policy and make recommendations to the President. They must also to initiate, design, coordinate and monitor programmes aimed at integrating young people into the economy and society in general. They are required to guide efforts to facilitate economic participation and empowerment amongst young people and to partner and assist organs of state, the private sector, non-governmental organisations and community based organisation initiatives aimed at employment and skills development and to initiate programmes directed at poverty alleviation, urban and rural development and the combating of crime, substance abuse and social decay amongst youth. The organisation is required to establish annual national priorities in respect of youth development in the country and to promote the youth development approach by all organs of state, the private sector and NGOs on matters relating to youth development and to promote the interests generally of the youth, as well as youth with disabilities.

The NYDA, in order to attend to all these duties, had established areas of focus: the national youth service and social cohesion, policy research and development, governance training and development, economic participation, youth advisory and information services and the National Youth Fund. It must implement the provision of a variety of services such as career guidance services, access to information on the products and services of the National Youth Fund, create and administer databases for employment opportunities for young people, and provide financial assistance to youth to enable them to further their careers as well as to small, micro and medium enterprises owned by young people. It must provide mentoring services aimed at empowering youth in the economy, bridging programmes to make the transition from school to work or from training to work easier, personal development training and training for unemployed youth to provide them with skills to allow them to integrate into the economy and any other service which may be necessary to advance youth development in the country. He noted that the current National Youth Development Agency Act is currently under review and that the agency is a stakeholder in the process.

The NYDA key performance areas are:
- Economic participation of young people in the economy;
- Education and skills development to promote the social economic well being of the youth;
- Health and well being to assist the youth to lead economically productive lives;
- Policy and research to develop a body of knowledge and best practice in the youth development sector;
- Governance to ensure NYDA complies as a schedule 3A public entity.

In 2010/11 the Agency had 49 key performance indicators (KPI) of which 42 were achieved. In 2011/12 it had 70 KPI of which 63 were achieved. In 2012/13 it had 55 KPI of which 47 were achieved. In 2013/14 there was a decline to 28 KPI as a direct consequence of the strategy review and the realisation that there was a need to be more focused. They prioritised the areas in which they need to intervene directly in order to maximise the use of their resources.

In 2010/11 the Agency requested a billion rand from Treasury, Treasury provided R369 million. In 2012/13 the Agency requested 1 billion rand and received R385 million. In 2013/14 the Agency again requested a billion rand, the Treasury committed to R405 million. However they only received R376 million which was lower than the previous year’s MTEF allocation. In 2013/2014 the Agency did not request any additional funding and when they engaged with National Treasury they indicated that having reviewed NYDA strategy and having committed to turnaround the Agency through governance processes, compliance and delivery to the youth of the country, the Agency wanted to present a case for extra funding to Treasury which was evidence based. The Agency had said to National Treasury that they were committed to spending what they had been allocated, and would show how they used the money and present a case for increased funding. In the 2014/15 year the commitment was R408 million which was honoured by National Treasury. In the MTSF submission that they are making to Treasury the Agency would be requesting and extra R200 million in funding which is supported by a clear business case with respect to their programmes which they believe had improved the opportunities for youth.

Key programmes are biased towards unemployed youth, young women, youth in rural areas, youth living with disabilities, school-aged out-of-school youth, youth at risk, youth-headed households, youth in conflict with the law and youth abusing narcotics including those in school. The NYDA focuses on education, skills development and economic participation at a secondary level. In this regard, programmes that had been implemented are the Solomon Mahlangu Scholarship Fund which is designed to encourage youth from disadvantaged backgrounds to further their education and is implemented in partnership with major universities in South Africa. The Grant Funding Programme, which is intended to stimulate entrepreneurship by way of both financial and non-financial services, such as training and mentoring services as a well as the grant itself which consists of a maximum of R100 000. The Second Chance matric re-write programme is one of the more successful programmes. The Youth Build Programme is designed to teach technical skills, community service and leadership development, specifically targeting out-of-school youth. The youth build houses and other community assets in partnership with Public Works and the Department Of Human Settlements and local government. The programme had proven successful in building skills in youth.  Other programmes are the National Youth Service Programme which is designed to provide the youth with skills and service allowing them to be the builders of their own communities thus fostering patriotism. The Agency would like to build on this program. The Research programme had established the South African Youth Development Institute in partnership with the University of Johannesburg to develop high quality, cutting edge information on youth development in the country.

Key issues facing NYDA are the high expenditure on salaries. The reason for this lies in the merger with the Umsobomvu Youth Fund and the National Youth Commission. The Labour Relations Act states that employees must not find themselves in a worse situation than they were in prior to a merger so the Agency had no option for retrenchment or salary reduction. The Agency intends to address this by limiting wage increases to the inflation rate and by way of a skills audit to determine which employees are able to deliver the NYDA mandate. A change management programme would assist in managing the process of transitioning into a new structure. The Agency had taken a decision to engage the Department of Public Service and Administration with the view to directing excess staff to vacant positions elsewhere in government. They had embarked on a turnaround strategy which is dedicated in part to cause containment and manage the salary bill going forward. The turnaround structure is to be presented to the NYDA board in September and once the strategy is adopted it can be presented to the Committee. Given the nature of the NYDA mandate it is expected that a significant part of the allocation would go to the salary bill because a large human resource is needed to deliver the mandate. Another key issues that the Agency would like to bring to the attention of the Committee, is the insufficient access to youth development information, products and services as there are only 14 full-service branches across the nation. There is a need to expand local youth offices within municipalities. The Agency desires to have an office in every municipality where advisory services can be provided to young people. Of the 217 local youth offices established, only 131 of these are functional. This matter was brought to the attention of the Standing Committee on Appropriation in 2013 and we were hoping the fifth democratic government would assume the commitment made by the fourth term government and assist the Agency in developing offices in all municipalities. The Agency would also look at other methods of reaching young people such as the outreach programme which involves visits to areas far from branch offices to share the message of the NYDA.

Discussion
The Chairperson thanked the NYDA for the presentation and said to the presenters that if she could compare the relationship between the Committee and the Agency she would say the process they were undergoing was similar to a vow renewal ceremony in that they were trying to determine whether their relationship was still relevant. She said they need to look to what had been established and been done since 1994. She asked what their threats, challenges and strong points are and asked whether their clients are happy with them. As for the money that had been invested in them since 1994, what is the return? She asked if there are any success stories from the NYDA, any former youth who had been promoted by means of the services of the NYDA. 

Mr M Cardo (DA) asked about the salary structure, the increased funding application and the turnaround strategy itself. He said that it is accepted that the NYDA spends an unacceptably high amount on salaries, almost half of its budget, so the restructuring process is a good idea if one of the consequences was a reduction in the wage bill. He commented that there are ten executive positions in the NYDA, six of which are vacant, all of which comes at a price tag of almost R1 million each. The CEO in the organisation comes with a bill of R1.9 million, more than a minister and almost as much as a premier. There are also 30 senior managers, half of which come with a price tag of over R800 000 each. In light of this, he asked if there would be a re-examination of the number of these sorts of posts and whether there should be a freeze in trying to fill these executive posts until after the restructuring process. He asked what the exact nature of the restructuring process would be, who the stakeholders are and what the time frame for the process is. He asked about the extra 200 million rand requested and said in light of the Agency’s history of wasting funds, what is the exact intention for the money and what is the nature of the solid business case referred to. In light particularly of the Act being tagged as a section 76 act, what is the rationale for the legislative review and what consultation process is to be followed in the review, what stakeholders would be part of the process, what the impact of the review would be on the provincial advisory boards, what those provincial advisory boards are and what the institutional and financial implications are of the provincial advisory board? He also asked about the research institution, when it would be launched how many staff it would have, how much it would cost, how its role and mandate would differ from the NYDA since the Agency also does research work? He was surprised it is taking so long to present the turnaround strategy to the board, given it had been in the works for at least the last 18 months. He asked when they would be informed about the turnaround strategy.

The Chairperson asked the members to stick to the agenda and to ask questions relating only to their role and mandate and issues requiring immediate attention.

Ms Z Dlamini-Dubazana (ANC) thanked the Deputy Minister and the CEO of the NYDA. She said she would to address the Deputy Minister because she feels that as he is there they can be advised as to what exactly the ANC is concerned with as far as the key programmes of the NYDA. From her standpoint one problem with the key programmes of the NYDA is that they are not detailed, resulting in the NYDA not giving a clear medium term expenditure framework. This is a problem and it results in the NYDA asking for a billion rand every financial year. She advised the Agency to get assistance from National Treasury to help table the programmes of each sector or portfolio. For example if the Agency discusses administration they must say how much is allocated to that, and how that allocation is apportioned within that. She begged that the Agency follow the standardised framework. She said that the NYDA does not know if they actually need the extra money requested because their programmes are not detailed enough. As regards the grant allocation, the NYDA is expected to account for every cent given to it. However the NYDA is not forth coming with information and it interferes with the Committee’s ability to do oversight. She asked why 141 of their offices are not functioning, what is the problem and what the plan was when they set up those offices. She asked how they planned to capacitate them. As for the points about youth at risk and the youth in conflict with law, she asked if this is duplication and in what way the programmes differ. She seconded the Chairperson’s request for information about persons who had benefited from the Agency’s work.

The Chairperson referred back to her marriage analogy saying the marriage between the Committee and the Department is one which falls under a community of property regime. This meant that what belongs to the Agency belongs to the Committee and this makes things difficult.

Mr S Motau (DA) said that in the greater scheme of things, R400 million does not sound like much when you consider they have a national budget in the trillions. However, due to the nature of the beast, they had to ask if the NYDA is still relevant. It is the responsibility of the NYDA to prove that they are. The language used in the presentation is very good, they talk about youth, empowerment, patriotism but the practice in fact seems to negate that because the complaints they get is that the Agency is not inclusive it is exclusive that it appears on the ground as though the Agency is seen to favour those youth aligned to the ANC and the SACP. This may be true or untrue, but it is the job of the Agency to dissipate this. Until this is done, the NYDA remains politicised. He asked what the NYDA is doing to ensure it becomes a national youth development agency that can achieve the objectives of national cohesion, that fosters patriotism amongst the youth and can actually be seen to engender all the values outlined in the presentation.

The Chairperson asked him to qualify the allegation regarding favouritism to youth affiliated to the SACP or the Youth League or to kindly rescind the statement as this is a public platform and that is a serious allegation.

Mr Motau (DA) said the Chairperson is pre-empting herself and that he would not say anything he was not sure about. As a constituency leader who lives in his community, he had heard these complaints all the time from members of his constituency. He had even advised them to bring forward those NYDA employees who asked his constituents about their party affiliation. In the last parliament he raised this same issue in parliament and the Deputy President at the time requested that these complaints be looked into.

The Chairperson commented that his allegation is not based on fact, and that it is in fact an assumption. She does not want such assumptions to be communicated in this platform unless he had hard facts because they are not helpful.

Mr M Dirks (ANC) said the statement made by Mr Motau is not in order and that it is unfortunate that such a statement had been made in the Committee. This had been discussed with the NYDA previously and they had raised it at every constituency including the ANC constituencies that the youth feel that the organisation is not visible, that it is well known but not easy to find. Youth all over in every constituency feel that they are not benefiting from the presence of the NYDA. Such assumptions should not be raised as they are not fair.

Mr Motau said he agreed with Mr Dirks. The presence of youth who feel they are not benefiting only strengthens the argument that there is a perception out there and the job of the Committee is to ensure that the NYDA is seen as it is supposed to be seen and not otherwise, because if that happens it cannot succeed. Mr Dirks supports his assertion by agreeing that there are members of the public who feel this way.

Ms V Mente (EFF) directed her question to the CEO and asked about the status of the KPIs which are declining. She asked if the objective of this action was to prioritise. What methods did they use to prioritise because their indicators are what they had done and if the KPIs had declined so much to only 26, what areas were prioritised because this was worrying? They had come up with wonderful programmes such as the youth build programme, but how is NYDA making people aware of these programmes? She asked how they are reaching out to people in rural areas and townships. She agreed with Ms Dlamini-Dubazana, asking how 14 branches can cater to all of South Africa, and asked where their offices are located and what the responsibilities of the branches are.  She said there are not even pamphlets advertising the Agency. It is high time they allocate a day or two to each of these entities so they can give the Committee a thorough breakdown because the information provided is lacking. She agreed with Mr Motau, saying the public always had the same complaints and questions about the NYDA saying that they as constituency leaders cannot address these questions until they had all the information.

Mr S Mncwabe (NFP) raised the turnaround strategy and appealed to the CEO to ensure that this turnaround becomes a reality. They must address the high salary expenditure as it would not be fair to the community to not provide services but still cater for high salaries and expensive events. It was inevitable that the merger would lead to some skills amongst the workforce being duplicated or irrelevant or not crucial to the NYDA. For example those who joined the NYDA in 1994 may no longer be crucial to the NYDA as regards visibility. The NYDA needs to do better, fourteen offices across the country is insufficient and something needs to change. He felt that the relevancy of the NYDA is not in question, the NYDA is needed but is in need of some restructuring.

The Chairperson thanked the member and reminded him that experience is the best teacher so those persons who had been with the NYDA since 1994 could very well be instrumental in aiding the NYDA in achieving its mandate.

Mr A van der Westhuizen (DA) referred to the NYDA duty to provide a career guidance service and a database of employment opportunities, saying the latter was also in the mandate of the Department of Labour. He asked if the two of them are working together on this and if so how these talks had progressed. On the problem of high salaries, he asked if they had set a target for the budget for salaries of their staff.

Mr J Mcgluwa (DA) said he would like to commend the NYDA for their plan to have a skills audit and asked if they are in a position to pronounce on the details such as the date for this taking into consideration things that may have an effect on the skills audit such as employee rights and so forth.

Ms R Lesoma (ANC) said it would be a problem if they say it is a crime and a sin to be ANC and that this Committee would assist the NYDA to ensure that it focus on the issues that it needs to focus on. She thanked the Deputy Minister for his presence at the meeting. She appreciated that the NYDA had discussed partnering with the department to avoid duplication. In terms of the turnaround strategy, she asked if there is an exit plan for the individuals that may be retrenched in their restructuring aside from their placement in other government departments because these people need to be placed in a sustainable position outside the NYDA. There needs to be a properly developed and planned national marketing strategy and that there must be a point where they stop their turnaround. There must be an end point to their turnaround strategy and on this note she asked how they could request extra funds when they are still trying to figure themselves out. She asked how the NYDA is aligned to the NDP. They should also look to having a good working relationship in utilising the national centres available around the country which would deal with the issue of visibility. They should look into aligning their core mandate.

The Chairperson requested that the CEO not respond on the turnaround strategy because they had not seen the strategy yet. She requested that they receive written responses so that when the NYDA returns to report on the turnaround strategy they can compare what had been said in the meeting to the presentation made on the turnaround strategy.

Mr Ramukumba replied that whilst he would not speak on the turnaround strategy, it would be referred to in addressing some of the other questions raised. Regarding the advertisements for the vacant positions, he would caution against stopping this because some of the positions advertised are a necessity to support the running of the institution, such as a Chief Financial Officer. The positions advertised were planned and strategised for. The turnaround strategy would address issues regarding the number of senior management positions and they anticipated that there would be a significant reduction in the number of senior positions.

On their request for increased funds, in light of their history of wasteful expenditure, Mr Ramukumba said the past must be juxtaposed with the present. Two to three years ago there would have been those challenges that led to significant amounts of irregular expenditure. They are currently sitting with an irregular expenditure of about R16 million and this is a great improvement. They are gearing themselves towards zero irregular expenditure. The youth development institute was created to be a section 21 company and the intention was for it to be self-sufficient, they had allocated R4 million rand for it funding. The intention is for the institute to have an executive director as well as a fundraising component.

He would not address the questions of Ms Dlamini-Dabuzana too extensively as they would provide the written details requested. He felt the proposed workshop would be a good opportunity for the NYDA to take the Committee through the NYDA’s operations more extensively. On the decline in the number of KPIs, he said the repositioning was developed in the Fourth Parliament and the previous Portfolio Committee had advised – and the NYDA agreed – that with the 70 or so KPIs, they were spreading themselves too thin. In light of their budget, they needed to find ways to target their efforts and they had determined education and skills development are the biggest barriers to employment for the youth. They agree with the Committee’s comments regarding the location of their offices which are in the CBD areas. The issue is the areas were inherited and the cost of trying to establish new offices is exorbitant. The turnaround strategy would look to take the NYDA out to the youth possibly by way of fully functional outreach mobile vehicles and other means such as technological pathways. They would provide detailed written responses. He said he is a qualified chartered accountant and if the Members can say that a qualified charted accountant who is a CEO of a government agency earns less than him in another department with the same responsibilities, he is prepared to take the pay cut. He is a skilled professional and there are other skilled professionals doing the same job who earn possibly even more than he does and he does not feel that because he is an NYDA employee, he should be treated differently.

Mr Kenny Morolong, NYDA Deputy Chairperson, said that the 14 branches are widespread and they would be visiting each branch to assess their performance. The NYDA is most concerned with the performance of their local offices because this is where young people are exposed to the products and services of the NYDA at a local level. Their role as the national NYDA is to oversee the functioning of the offices and when municipalities renege on the commitment made with respect to this partnership, it affects the way the NYDA relates to the community. They had entered into partnerships with various institutions, for example, in the City of Cape Town where there was a substance abuse crisis amongst the youth. They engaged the youth, and are looking to hold talks at the University of the Western Cape to inform them of the programmes offered by the NYDA. They would be hosting 100 such dialogues to help spread the message of the NYDA to the youth. He referred to the allegations made by constituencies that the NYDA is a politically based agency, saying if those constituencies can produce facts to substantiate these allegations, they would be happy to respond to them.

Mr Yershen Pillay added that in September 2013, a public perception survey was done. The results showed that 83% of youth felt that the NYDA was an important and relevant institution in the country. Further, a customer satisfaction survey was conducted and 95% of youth said they were happy with the services received. On this basis, perhaps those previously stated perceptions about the NYDA are false. He agreed that they do need to improve visibility, however this endeavour is not cost free. The Department of Basic Education had a salary bill that was 95% of its budget because teachers are required to deliver education and their NYDA branches too require a lot of human capital. It is important that they analyse how the money is being spent, and on what. With 21.7 million young people in the country, people would not definitely be satisfied because R400 million cannot cater for that many people. On the question of relevance and importance, he had received an email on 7 August from Toby Chance, DA Shadow Minister of Small Business Development, asking for a meeting to share on the valuable work done by the NYDA in small business and enterprise, and that meeting is scheduled for September. They must agree and acknowledge that they had to do more. A New Age newspaper article chronicles one of the success stories created via the NYDA of a young man given a grant to do diving who is now employed in the diving industry. So their relevance and importance is evident. On salaries, he said that the CEO salary was reduced from R2.4 to R1.9 million and they determine their salaries on the basis of performance. The CEO was only appointed in June and the turnaround strategy is late because of this. They may need time to really bolster their results in line with how the organisation is currently being run. He sat on the NSFAS board and their objectives and those of the NYDA are not entirely aligned. He agreed that they need to be more visible, scale up and reach more youth but this requires a lot of resources that they simply do not have.

Deputy Minister in the Presidency, Buti Manamela, said that what may be required is to have the NYDA present on their structure, budget and on the progress that had been made with regards to the Auditor-General’s findings over the last three years or so. The Committee can be explicit on what they expect of the NDYA and they can then engage on that basis. The Department of Performance Monitoring and Evaluation (DPME) had convened a meeting with close to 30 youth formations to engage with them about the initial work that they want to do on the national youth policy, on the amendment of the youth development act and the national youth policy and on the integrated youth strategy. Once this had been concluded, the direction of the NYDA would change. The turnaround strategy is solely on the basis of their structure however the direction would definitely change. MP Cardo was present at that meeting and was given the opportunity to raise some of these issues however he did not.

Mr M Cardo (DA) commented that the questions he addressed to the NYDA were not relevant at the meeting in question.

The Deputy Minister continued that the mistake made in 2008 was to assume that the NYDA was a mini government and whatever youth problems that arose, the NYDA would attend to them. They expected the NYDA to stretch their resources too far to attend to all these needs and challenges confronting young people and that is why they would like to look into the integrated development strategy and other such processes. He emphasized a point made by the President regarding the NYDA, saying that it is merely a tool by which the youth development strategy of government can be realised. On the matter of the R1 billion, he said it would be good to get more information regarding the justification for the request for an extra R200 million and the repeated request for R1 billion. Their main task was to expand access to the NYDA and they had requested that DPME develop a tool for them that would allow them to make unannounced visits to NYDA offices and to help the NYDA to develop their programmes and make the local offices operational.

The Chairperson said the NYDA is still relevant and the Committee would like to give it all the support that it needs and that she would take their turnaround strategy as a confession to the Committee in the catholic sense. She agreed with the Deputy Minister’s determination of the way forward and that the Committee looks forward to a meatier report from them in future.

Public Service Commission (PSC) briefing
Mr Ben Mthembu, PSC Chairperson greeted the Committee members, the Deputy Minister of Public Service and Administration, Ayanda Dlodlo, Deputy Minister in the Presidency, Buti Manamela, and the many guests at the meeting. He introduced his delegation before being interrupted by the Chairperson.

The Chairperson asked Mr Mthembu how long he had been with the institution.

Mr Mthembu responded that he had been with the Public Service Commission since 2009.

The Chairperson asked what the common practice is for distribution of the briefing documents when attending parliamentary committee meetings.

Mr Mthembu responded that the presentation should be distributed to the Portfolio Committee at least two days before the actual presentation. He said he must take responsibility and sincerely apologise to the Committee and that he was informed as he entered the chamber that there had been an administrative mishap with the documents. He could not recall any time in the past when they had not adhered to the standard of making the presentation available to the Portfolio Committee beforehand.

The Chairperson said that a leader takes responsibility so that they do not have to apologise, that as a leader one must try to avoid apologising by all means because an apology undermines everything they would have to say. She took offence if the practice had been to provide the Committee with the presentation document at least two days prior to the meeting and then, once starting off with a new Portfolio Committee you do not adhere to this standard. Respect is important between the Committee and the Commission and the Commission needs to understand what is expected of them. On that note she would allow committee members to address the Commission on this issue. As the leader of the Commission, Mr Mthembu must take charge and ensure compliance because public service administration monitoring and evaluation is a key component of government. If the people behind it are not compliant, then they cannot expect other public service entities or members to comply. If this is an indication of how they operate, the Committee is unimpressed and there should be no need to exchange unpleasant words. The Commission must assist them in taking South Africa into the future and the attitude being displayed is neither wanted nor acceptable. She strongly criticised the waste of resources spent in flying the delegation down and accommodating them in Cape Town only for them to fail to execute their duty. Their actions undermine the Committee and they do not want this. She took her responsibilities seriously and she would not allow people to undermine the responsibility afforded them by millions of people. She is very disappointed with the Commission. When the NYDA gave their presentation, she had given the analogy of a marriage in community of property, and if the Commission fails, the Committee fails, and they do not want this.

Mr J Mcgluwa (DA) registered his dissatisfaction at the documents not being sent on time. He said that the Committee engages on national and public issues and this scenario is a shame especially as they are members of parliament representing South Africa and they are being denied an opportunity to do their job. They must remind the Public Service Commission that it is a knowledge based institution and what kind of message does this sort of behaviour send to South Africa as a whole. The role of the Commission is to keep the Committee informed on public administration. They have 311 employees at their disposal and they should not have to stand before the Committee as they were. He noted the Committee’s ability to summon people before it and to keep them in obeisance and suspend them when they are not compliant and the Committee does not want to have to do that to them. The Public Service Commission had hindered them as Parliament to perform their functions and engage properly. He said they would need to engage again, and they would have to figure out the logistics of such a reconvening.

Ms Z Dlamini-Dabuzana (ANC) asked the Commissioner when he received the invitation to come before the Committee. She strongly censured the behaviour displayed asking if the Commissioner is fully responsible for this. The same thing happened the last time the Public Service Commission came before the Committee and at that time they had to adjourn the meeting to address the issue. The Commissioner is failing the President and Parliament. She asked if Parliament can invoke section 196 and investigate what is happening at the PSC because nothing is forthcoming from the institution. The President had insisted in his state of the nation address that the Fifth Parliament do away with the bucket system. This is what the Public Service Commission is supposed to be reporting on, but it had failed in spite of their exorbitant monthly salaries. She seconded the Chairperson’s statement that the Commission is undermining the Committee, President and Parliament. She stated that there is a problem in the Commission. She did not feel they could progress with the presentation and the delegation should be made to return.

Ms R Lesoma (ANC) agreed with Ms Dlamini-Dabuzana that the previous PSC meeting was chaotic. However in the present meeting, there was improvement on the side of NYDA. She asked if the PSC recognises that it has to report to a ministry and whether they had sent this report to that ministry, stating that if they had, she would ask that the Deputy Ministry respond to that. She agreed with the Chairperson that the Committee felt undermined and she asked for better cooperation from the Commission in future.

The Chairperson read to the Commission its legislative mandate and their values and principles which were outlined as professional ethics, efficient economic and effective use of resources, accountability, good human resource management and career development. She asked why they are failing to align to these principles. She asked how they expected to monitor the entire public service if they cannot submit a 27 page document on time.

Mr Mthembu said that he assumed full responsibility for the mishap and stated that there was no intention on the part of the Commission to break away from the standard practice. They had received the invitation about two weeks ago. The necessary preparations were made and they determined who of them would come before the Committee. They had been in Cape Town since Monday holding their plenary meetings and they had changed their programme to accommodate the presentation.

The Chairperson said their previous engagements and schedule is not the concern of the meeting. They only wanted to know why the documents were not turned in on time

Mr Mthembu responded about the late submission by saying he had only been made aware that the Committee had not received the documents when he arrived at the meeting and they had never had an issue such as this before. He sincerely apologised and said that they had no intention of undermining the Committee.

The Chairperson instructed Mr Mthembu to take charge of his people and hold them accountable, saying this is necessary because at the end of the day he is the one embarrassed by their mishaps. The Committee is not happy as made evident by their comments. She reverted to the marriage analogy, saying the marriage is a long one and they must start on a good footing. She said they are trying to move the country forward and they need to work together in order to do this. She proposed that the Commission return on 10 September. She apologised to the Commissioner for the wasteful expenditure and wished him luck in explaining it to the Auditor-General.

The Committee attended to a few housekeeping issues, discussing an appropriate date for its strategic planning workshop. They discussed their schedule for upcoming meetings as well.

Meeting adjourned.