Committee Report on Human Settlements 2014 Budget

Meeting report

Opening Remarks by the Chairperson
The Chairperson welcomed the Members and explained that the aim of the meeting was to consider and adopt the minutes of the two previous meeting as well as the Committee’s report on the Department’s 2014 budget and strategic plan.

Committee Minutes

Minutes dated 1 July 2014
The Chairperson tabled the document for consideration. She asked Members to review it and to indicate if any amendments were needed.

Mr H Memezi (ANC) stated that the minutes of the meeting held on 1 July 2014 was correctly captured and moved for its adoption.

Ms T Gqada (DA) seconded the motion.

The minutes were accordingly approved with no changes.

Minutes dated 3 July 2014

The Chairperson tabled the document for consideration. She asked Members to review it and to indicate if any amendments were needed.

Mr M Gana (DA) commented that the minutes did not capture the apology of Ms Gqada.

The Chairperson commented that the apology of Ms Gqada should be sent via email to the Committee through the Committee Secretary for record purposes.

Ms L Mnganga–Gcabashe (ANC) sought clarity on whether an apology was necessary when an alternate Member attended a meeting.

Mr Memezi moved for the adoption of minutes.

Mr M Shelembe (NFP) seconded the motion.

The minutes dated 3 July 2014 were adopted with amendments.

Committee Report on Human Settlements 2014 Budget and Strategic Plan
The Chairperson commented that the Committee was on course and doing well. She added that the report was a proof that the budget process had been followed in readiness for the budget debate on the 15 July 2014.

Mr Memezi requested that the key areas of the report be read by the Committee Secretary.

Mr Gana seconded that the report be read for clarity.

Ms Kholiswa Pasiya, Committee Secretary, read through the Committee Report on the 2014 Budget and Strategic Plan of the Department of Human Settlements.

The Chairperson thanked the Secretary and commented that the report was based on the Committee’s meeting on budget plan. She welcomed recommendations from members.

Mr Gana commented that he had not sent his recommendation. His recommendation was that the Committee needed clarity in terms of which department would take responsibility for sanitation and the problem this brought for oversight. He suggested that it be added to the recommendations considering that over R2 billion was set aside for this project. He recommended that the Minister of Human Settlements should clarify which department would be in charge of sanitation in the house (not the bulk settlement) whether it was Human Settlements or Water and Sanitation. If not clarified, the Committee could be surprised to find out after some months that some funds were transferred to another department. He suggested that the Minister be given a time frame for clarification.

Mr Shelembe commented that there was an argument between the Minister and the Department on the housing plan of 2 million and 1.4 million respectively which was changed to 1 million houses. He added that 400 000 houses was a big number to consider in terms of performance plan. He requested clarification on the plan for eradicating the 280 000 backlog.

The Chairperson explained the plan for eradicating the 280 000 backlog was a five year programme while the 47 000 backlog was targeted by 2014/15. A debate should be had on whether these targets could be reached in five years. Responding to Mr Gana’s concern around the eradication of the bucket system, she felt there should not be a debate on this because the Department did have a programme to deal with the eradication of the bucket system. There was also a budget of R1.9 billion for this eradication programme before the Committee.  

Mr Gana commented that his submission was not only on the eradication of the bucket system but sanitation as a whole. He asked which department would oversee the sanitation projects in the house. He said there should be a decision on whether the sanitation project in the house or in the yard would be taken by Human Settlements or Water and Sanitation. It was important to know to what extent the mandate of Human Settlement was on sanitation. The Minister said that bulk sanitation was to be handled by Water and Sanitation while Human Settlement was handling in-the yard sanitation.

The Chairperson recommended that the Committee should be continually appraised about the negotiation between the two departments.

Ms Gcabashe noted the classic example was of the metro municipalities which had larger departments for various functions and its roles were clear. The National and Provincial departments of Human Settlements dealt with in-house sanitation as it did not have specialized engineers.                                                                                             She commented that Human Settlements did not have engineers that specialized in water and electricity reticulation. Human Settlement dealt with in-house sanitation like in-house water plumbing. The bulk reticulation was handled by the specialized Infrastructure department like Water and Sanitation, Engineering and electricity reticulations. However the department could be invited for clarification. She added that the Strategic plan was already adopted by the previous Cabinet of 1 million housing target which reflected in the report. She recommended that the target statement in the report be changed to “the Minister had proposed to increase the target to 1.4 million targets”.

Mr N Capa (ANC) requested clarity on the how the budget would be integrated.

The Chairperson commented that the item on the agenda was for the adoption of the report.

Mr Memezi suggested that the Committee’s recommendation should be 2 million houses as raised by the Minister. On the issue of internal regulation, he thought the matter had been nicely clarified by Ms Gcabashe. He highlighted there was always a working relationship between the duties of municipalities, provinces and national government.  

Mr K Sithole (IFP) apologized for coming late and expressed concerned about the mandate of Human Settlements due to the shifting of Sanitation from Human Settlements and the eradication of the bucket system from some public entities such as Sanitation Development Agency (SDA).

Ms V Bam-Mugwanya (ANC) asked if it was a norm to first install bulk infrastructure before any form of housing was put up so that whenever a development was put up it connected to the bulk infrastructure that already existed.

The Chairperson suggested that a debate be held for the Committee to have a better understanding.

Mr Gana commented that clarity of scope was required urgently on the internal regulation in Human Settlements. He asked where the money for the differential of 400 000 housing plan be sourced from as it was not in the medium term budget accepted last year.

The Chairperson replied that there was a commitment from the Minister to look at what she intended to achieve in the next three months. She agreed that there should be a discussion between the Committee and the Portfolio Committee on Water and Sanitation to ensure they were on the same page. She thanked the members and expressed her happiness that the grey areas raised had created a program for the Committee.

Ms Bam-Mugwanya commented that little was mentioned about the MDG in respect of toilets as it would be nice to know whether the goals were going to be met in the structural operations that the department would be involved in when houses are built would that they conform to the MDGs.

The Chairperson replied that the Minister had said that Chapter eight of the National Development Plan incorporated the MDGs in the Human Settlements.

Mr L Khoarai (ANC) moved for the adoption of the Report and suggested that numbering be used instead of bullet points.

Mr Sithole commented that most of the hostels belonged to provinces and were not a responsibility of municipalities.

Ms Gcabashe commented that 1.4 million to 2 million targets was not realistic which should be amended in the report.

Mr Memezi seconded the adoption of the report.

The Chairperson commented that the report was unanimously adopted with amendments and recommendations. She reminded the Committee members of the oncoming budget vote at the Old Assembly Building on 15 July 2014 and on 29 July.

Mr Gana requested that entities be invited for presentation before the Committee as there were questions to be asked.

The Chairperson replied that this was in the pipeline.

Ms Bam-Mugwanya asked when the topics for the ATC discussion would be known.

Mr Gana commented that the Committee’s Strategic plan should be brought forward.

The Chairperson replied that it would happen very soon and thanked the Members for their enthusiasm.

Mr Gana asked why the parliamentary camera was not covering the meetings.

The Chairperson replied that when there were scandals the Committee would be covered.

The meeting was adjourned.