The National Commissioner for Police presented the plans for Programme 4: Crime Intelligence. During the discussion, MPs asked questions about mandatory psychological debriefings; the Mdluli matter; abuse of covert operations; over-classification in vetting and political interference in the vetting process. The Chairperson stated that the Committee plans to look very closely at SAPS demilitarisation and professionalisation.
Next, the Independent Police Investigative Directorate presented its Annual Performance Plan and Budget for 2014/2015. The Committee asked if IPID intended to exclude common assault from its investigation mandate, what happened with the George office, IPID’s overarching strategy, the role of IPID versus the role of SAPS, unfunded mandates, key personnel vacancies, SAPS compliance with IPID recommendations, its organisational structure, under expenditure; if the police are adhering to their obligation to report criminal behaviour within SAPS to IPID, and what mechanisms are in place to ensure this; the status of the investigation into the National Police Commissioner and the Provincial Police Commissioner of the Western Cape.
Continuing from the previous day, the Chairperson asked if anyone still had questions for the National Commissioner of Police and the SAPS delegation. He asked for clarification behind the vetting process of 1 500 SAPS members It was vital that top management or the top leadership team subscribed to the highest level of ethics and he asked what plans were in place for integrity testing. He asked for comments on the rotation of SAPS staff, especially members. He saw the rotation of SAPS staff as a strategy to deal with corruption, to address gang violence and the concerns with the firearms registry. He asked for a status report on the case made by Solidarity on the remuneration levels of captains and colonels. He noted the incidence of femicide in the Western Cape by SAPS members and asked if there were any new initiatives in place to boost morale and how to deal with pressure and stressors.
National Commissioner Phiyega said a decision was made to do a deliberate vetting process to cover the top 1500 SAPS membership. All senior management was nearly complete - they either do it internally or go via the State Security Agency. They have identified future strategic areas such as the procurement unit – the program is gaining traction and they hope that in time they can complete this with the entire leadership. She assured the Committee that any new recruits, even those starting training, are vetted and the employment letter states that appointment is dependent on clearance. Promotion is dependent on voluntary declaration of any ongoing court cases or validity of qualifications. If you are found to have lied, there will be consequences.
Corruption and rotation had started being dealt with in specific areas such as the borders and airports and some of the most remote police stations to give opportunities for career advancement. The rotation strategies at airports were necessary, because conflicts occurred regularly in that setting. The case brought by Solidarity on the remuneration levels was still pending and not much had been achieved. Any progress would be reported to the Committee. The Solidarity case caused a lot of pain because the announcements were made about promotions and it was stopped by the unions. It needed to be resolved as soon as possible, because it caused a lot of uncertainty among SAPS officials.
Ms D Kohler-Barnard (DA) asked if there has been any move to see mandatory psychological debriefing of officers after any firearm incident or a particularly gruesome cleanup before going back to work. She stated that there seems to be a correlation between lack of psychological debriefing and family murders and SAPS suicides. Also the macho attitude within SAPS and the fear that any psychological consultation would impact a SAPS member's chances for promotion feeds into this. However, if there was an order from the National Commissioner to undergo debriefing, then attending a psychological debriefing would no longer be an issue.
Commissioner Phiyega said SAPS was focusing on an employee health and well-being (EHW) turnaround strategy. They are engaging with POLMED, using a mixed model to ensure the use of either a SAPS EHW practitioner or a private practitioner to ensure privacy. There needs to be more intensity about the station commander removing guns if psychological problems were suspected. Mandatory psychological debriefing was done on the first day and indicators were added to ensure people exposed to trauma are being taken care of.
A SAPS official added that benefits were designed in the process of psychological debriefing strategies and the challenge was getting SAPS officials to participate in the process. The provision was there, but the mandatory aspect of the provisions needed to be addressed with emphasis on the private and confidential aspect of the process.
Ms M Molebatsi (ANC) asked what happened to the arms cache found in Norwood and how were those firearms funded.
Commissioner Phiyega replied that that firearm investigation was on course and the guns had been taken for ballistic testing. The migration of the guns would be detected based on those ballistic reports. The syndicate behind the migration of the guns would be investigated and any progress made on the investigation would be reported to the Committee.
The Chairperson said a special briefing should be scheduled in August on the firearms registry, because it had been a concern in the previous administration as well.
Programme 4: Crime Intelligence briefing
The National Commissioner for Police, General Riah Phiyega, briefed the Portfolio Committee on Programme 4: Crime Intelligence. Its purpose is to manage crime intelligence and analyse crime information, and provide technical support for investigations and crime prevention operations. The strategic objective is to gather, correlate, coordinate, and analyse intelligence. The Crime Intelligence Programme is comprised of Crime Intelligence Operations and Intelligence and Information Management (see document).
Mr F Beukman (ANC) asked if the portfolio is sustainable in the medium to long term. He asked if they can get an assurance about financial controls.
Ms Kohler-Barnard asked about the Mdluli matter: He had sat at home for two years on full pay, and the charges that had previously been dropped, have now been reinstated. In 2010 she had asked for answers from this management team, and wanted to know what the status is as of today. Is he still a full member, on full salary? She also wanted to know about vetting. Does the current head of crime intelligence have top-secret clearance? She asked if the provincial heads had security clearance because before it seemed that none of the provincial heads had clearance.
Mr Z Mbhele (DA) asked about covert operations. These can be easily abused. She asked if the trends in the increase in property crimes and their role in organized crimes can be addressed.
Ms M Molebatsi (ANC) asked about over-classification in vetting. Where do you draw the line in stating that one is over-classification and one is not? She also asked what the situation with their strategy is now, and if a successful applicant can be turned down due to lack of achieving security clearance.
National Commissioner Phiyega replied that crime intelligence is a policing function, and that she is still on the journey of figuring out what crime intelligence can do. She is not in the position to give a timeframe. In regards to covert operations, she stated that they are in good hands, and that the matter has been dealt with by the CFO. They have been advertising the position and will be finalising the position very soon. With regards to General Mdluli, once matters are in the courts then all members must comply. There are new charges that have been posted, and there are certain pending issues that are holding our hands from acting. They have to wait for what will happen in the courts. Prior to her coming to the organization disciplinary charges were also formulated. There was one awaiting and the matter was postponed. Currently they have to go back to that space and look at the pending charges, and see how to take those processes forward. They need to be cautious and see what the courts prescribe. They hope this matter will come to an end, and it is in the basket of issues that they are dealing with. With Major General Ngcobo, a hearing is currently taking place to look at the non-disclosure. On abuse of covert operations, they take their governance processes in SAPS very seriously. They are making sure they account and stay the course of what they are doing. General Zulu will deal with the vetting issues.
General Bongiwe Zulu, Acting Divisional Commissioner for Crime Intelligence, replied about over-classification. They look at the job description of the particular official, and if that person is qualified to have top-secret clearance. Top-secret clearance requires a lot of work, and even after the commander decides that the messenger must have top-secret clearance, their job is to conduct an evaluation of the person. The applicant can be denied clearance. They conduct polygraph tests. They have to take into account the risks and the threats when giving someone clearance.
Mr M Tshishonga (Agang) asked if SAPS’ vetting process has been overruled by political heads, negatively or positively.
Ms Kohler-Barnard said that when the divisions of Crime Intelligence and the Presidential Protection Services were moved by the Commissioner, there was no consultation with the Committee. She asked the Commissioner to inform the Committee before making such appointments.
National Commissioner Phiyega replied about political interference, saying operations of the police are under the guidance of the National Commissioner. The Commissioner is in charge nationally and provincially. She is the final arbiter of these issues, and there is no engagement with any political platform or office. They did not restructure SAPS. She came to the Portfolio Committee and gave a full presentation on the reorganization of functions, and she gave full reasons for why she conducted this process. With regards to the Provincial Commissioner, the Police Act allows her to design the administrative framework of the police in accordance with the administrative requirements of policing in South Africa. She did present this to the Committee; she did her duties as Commissioner. She respects the rule of the unions, she engages with them, and she does not conflate their roles when given those powers.
Mr Beukman stated that they will look very closely at demilitarisation and professionalisation. This is a new portfolio committee and during their strategic planning in August, they will look very closely at these issues.
At this point in the meeting the delegation from SAPS excused themselves, and the delegation from the Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID) joined the meeting.
Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID) Annual Performance Plan & Budget 2014/2015
The delegation, led by Mr Robert McBride, Head of IPID, presented its budget estimates for 2014/15 for its four programmes: Programme 1: Administration, Programme 2: Investigation and Information Management, Programme 3: Legal Services, Programme 4: Compliance Monitoring and Stakeholder Management.
Mr McBride started the presentation with an overview of the history of IPID and its current issues. In 1997 the Department of Public Service and Administration approved 535 posts for the former Independent Complaint Directorate (ICD), which at that stage only consisted of 31 posts. Since then, expansion has not come anywhere near to where it should be. Its total staff is 393, which is far short of the original approved budget despite the new and expanded mandate through IPID. This has resulted in a skewed expenditure pattern away from the core function, a capacity problem, and under-spending. These concerns have been noted by the Portfolio Committee over the years. It must be noted that towards the end of the ICD, expenditure patterns had stabilized. To deal with the capacity issue, a number of satellite offices were started over the year. As a result of the outcomes of the strategic planning session last year and this year, IPID management had came to the conclusion that the concept of a satellite station approach needed to change and capacity issues needed to be looked at differently. The satellites were understaffed and under-resourced and developing full capacity under the satellite mandate was not sufficient. IPID management then moved towards full-complement status.
Mr Beukman stated that one of the most important goals of this committee is to ensure that the National Development Plan is implemented, especially in the demilitarisation of the police, which includes IPID. On the implementation of the IPID Act, he asked how Mr McBride sees this developing over the next few months.
Ms Kohler-Barnard stated that common assault makes up 60% of the IPID workload, and noted that IPID will no longer be accepting these complaints. She asked what the citizen’s next step should be if IPID is no longer going to investigate people being hit and slapped by members of the police. She asked what had happened with the George office. She also asked about the quality of the IPID recommendations being made to SAPS, as SAPS has been claiming that the recommendations are of poor quality.
Mr Mbhele asked about system stagnation. The risk is settling into inertia and accepting that things are bad and simply living with it. He would like clarity and elaboration on priorities – that these priorities are not just a wish list but that there is actually a timeframe that will yield results.
Ms M Mmola (ANC) asked what is meant by it not complying with the Occupational Health and Safety Act.
Ms Molebatsi asked what a satellite office is.
Mr McBride replied that common assault would not be dropped. Common assault goes right to the heart of the kind of society they want to be build – that people need to feel safe with the police. On the George office, the process of acquiring their own accommodation has been delayed, but currently the staff was working in a temporary office acquired through SAPS. On IPID recommendations, previously the acknowledgement of responses to IPID recommendations was 15%, and now it is at 100%. In terms of strategic expansion and service delivery improvement, any comment about strategic stagnation is incorrect. In giving effect to IPID optimising its capabilities, even with small resources, they have finalised their skills development plan which deals with in-depth training on investigations. There has been some expansion and some additional recruitment. In regards to capacity under-expenditure, on 3 March 2014 adverts went out for senior positions, and they are in the process of being finalised. Under-spending has been reduced, they have a slightly bigger budget, and they intend to bring up expenditure levels by 5%. On health and safety capacity, there is no capacity as there is no post for someone to be responsible for health and safety. They will have to deal with this when they finalise and reorganise the structure of the Directorate. A full staff complement is the minimum necessary to fulfil their mandate in all corners of the country. The mandate includes deadlines, and they are unable to achieve those targets at their current capacity. On the matter of professionalising the police, they have started engaging the provincial police and SAPS. In this process IPID sees itself on the same side as the security of the country. The more disciplined SAPS is, the more professionalised it is, the safer the country. Their goal is to rule out unprofessional police. There should be a professional body that deals with ethical issues.
Mr D Twala (EFF) stated that there does not seem to be a clear plan that talks about strategy, about how best to execute their task. He asked Mr McBride to give them more meat in terms of strategy plans. They need to talk to them in terms of the budget that is being proposed. They have gone through the Fourth Parliament meeting reports, and he is hearing the same explanations as given in the previous parliament. They have expectations and it is beholden upon the Directorate to assist them.
Ms Kohler-Barnard pointed out that the IPID website says that they are amending their responsibility to focus on more important issues than common assault.
Mr Tshishonga asked if there is an overlap between duties performed by IPID and the police. He remarked that IPID is not very well known, and provided the example of his cousin being very nearly killed in a police station, and not knowing that he could report the case to IPID.
Mr McBride responded that after deliberations they realised that removing common assault as a priority was an incorrect approach and they will not amend the legislation. Assault is firmly in their mandate and they would like to apologise for the discrepancy. He also stated that the strategic planning document he mentioned earlier talks directly to all the issues being raised on reach, coverage, and access to IPID. When reporting police impropriety, once a report is made by police at a police station, they must immediately report to IPID so IPID can investigate.
IPID Budget 2014: Estimates of National Expenditure
Mr McBride and Ms Lindokuhle Ngcongo, Chief Financial Officer, presented the 2014 estimates of national expenditure. The purpose of ENE is to set out the planned expenditure and performance at the time of tabling the budget. The ENE is aligned to the National Development Plan and outlines IPID’s contribution to Outcome 12 and the key service delivery goals. Included in this presentation were the performance, personnel, and finances of each of the four programmes.
Mr J Maake (ANC) asked about the unfunded mandates.
Ms Molebatsi asked what the requirements for an investigation are.
Ms Kohler-Barnard discussed the fiscal dumping that took place in the 4th quarter. She mentioned that the expenditure that was recorded for capital assets was under-spent in the third quarter and significantly over-spent in the fourth quarter.
Mr McBride replied that unfunded mandates happen. It means they have to stay very late at work to get the task done, even if it does not fall under their job description.
Ms Ngcongo stated that there is a lot of work being done by the team who works on the financials. They are continualy working to further improve those processes so that they will not fall into systemic stagnation. In regards to the quarterly expenditure trends, there is still a concern over the trends. In 2013/14 there were numerous delays to filling positions and facilitating the transition from ICD to IPID, and expenses for goods and services only kicked in later in the fiscal year. It is something they are working on to ensure that they are fully capacitated and that they are fully in line.
Ms Nomkhosi Netsianda, Chief Director for Corporate Services, stated that the expansion strategy was developed in April of this year.
Another IPID official stated that they need to get people equipped with specialised training in terms of cyber equipment and special investigations that they embark on.
Ms Kohler-Barnard asked for her question on capital assets to be answered.
Ms Ngcongo stated that expenditure on capital assets was a direct result of the late hiring practices.
Mr Mbhele asked what transfers and subsidies for departmental agencies entail, and stated that cash transfers are an area ripe for abuse.
Mr Twala asked about unrealistic expectations.
Ms Molebatsi asked about the loss of key personnel.
Mr Beukman stated that there were only two meetings of the audit committee, and asked how IPID sees the role of the audit committee.
Mr McBride stated on the matter of unrealistic expectations that people expect IPID to deal with aspects that are not part of its mandate and they insist on IPID dealing with these, perhaps because of a misunderstanding or because they trust IPID. Sometimes there is frustration in that context.
Ms Ngcongo replied about the loss of key personnel. They have identified that the problem is that most of the staff that leave go to other departments, especially their investigators who are attracted to institutions like the Public Protector, the military, etc. Their strategy is to look at how they can stretch the public servant levels so that their investigators will have the possibility for growth and want to remain with them. They are also looking at the total internal structure of IPID because even with their internal audit unit they are experiencing high turnover. So they are look at their structure in order to retain staff. On their retention policy, they are currently at the chamber level. There are delays because it has to be negotiated in the task teams. Transfers and the subsidies budget is calculated proportionate to growth in personnel.
Mr Twala said the Committee should deal with the unfunded mandates and see what happens.
Mr Beukman also said to let the Committee deal with unfunded mandates. That it is an issue for prioritisation.
Ms Molebatsi asked why, if investigation is the core of Programme 2, that expenditure is lower than other spending.
Ms Ngcongo replied that investigation is the core programme, but that it is the core programme whose expenditure is relatively low. It also experienced key vacancies at the end of the financial year.
Programme 1: Administration
Ms Nomkhosi Netsianda, Chief Director for Corporate Services, noted that Programme 1 provides overall management of IPID and provides support services, including strategic support. Programme 1 is comprised of Departmental Management, which provides strategic leadership and reporting for the Directorate and ensures overall compliance with relevant prescripts, and provides administrative support to the IPID Executive Director.
Mr Beukman stated that there was an indication by the agency of a list of policies that have to be transformed and implemented.
Ms Kohler-Barnard asked if internal promotions and mass vacancies was still an issue and if it has been dealt with. She asked if IPID was still trying to centralise everything by taking responsibilities away from the provincial head offices.
Ms Molebatsi noted one of the Auditor General’s findings was the lack of compliance with public service diversity, and asked what percentage of IPID is comprised of women and people with disabilities. She asked why the strategic objective providing feedback on the outcome of investigations was removed from the 2014/15 Annual Performance Plan (APP).
Mr Matthews Sesoko (Acting Chief Director: Investigation and Information Management) replied that they have targets set by their provincial offices to publicise the work of IPID. They also partner with the South African Revenue Service (SARS), the Department of Justice and SAPS. Then they can respond in terms of their mandate and make sure that they account to the community in terms of the work they do. They do have an extensive campaign that they are looking at expanding.
Mr Maake asked why three out of four chief directors are leaving their positions.
Ms Mmola asked if they have appointed provincial heads in the provinces. She asked what the state of women in higher positions is within IPID.
Mr McBride stated that the process of cascading responsibility to provincial heads is under way. All the chief director positions are acting heads, no one has been appointed. On the second day of his appointment, the advertisements went out to fill the posts, and they are in the final stage of filling these positions. Some internal people have applied and depending on the outcome of the process some of these people might be appointed.
Ms Netsianda responded that most policies have not been reviewed. They are at the stage where they are being consulted and these will be finalised soon. In 2013/14 they developed the internal governance framework, and in 2014/15 they will look at phase 2, which looks to upgrading the networks. They have already done governance structures, and they are moving according to the phases as indicated on the APP. On the disaster recovery plan, they are not happy with the current situation because their recovery site is within IPID. They are looking at having a site that is independent of IPID, and they already have the draft plan that is looking exclusively at IPID disaster recovery. They are looking at the business plan for the business of IPID. They started with the process of obtaining a service provider but that process did not go on because the prices were very high. They must go through the interview process so that the process is fair. On centralising at the national office, they have looked at this as an option but currently there are delegations that have been finalised aimed at delegating some functions, including finance delegations. On compliance with public service regulations, in 2012/13 there was 40% female representation, but then they lost three women and the number dropped to 36%. With regards to disabilities, they lost one person, and are now standing at 1%.
Programme 2: Investigation and Information Management
Mr Matthews Sesoko, Acting Chief Director: Investigations, noted the purpose of Programme 2 is to strengthen the oversight role over the police service by conducting investigations within the powers granted to the Directorate by the IPID Act. It makes recommendations on these investigations and ensures efficiency in registration and investigation of cases. The programme consists of
- Investigations Management, which develops and maintains investigation systems, procedures, norms, standards, and policies;
- Information Management, which manages information and knowledge management services through the development and maintenance of statistical information, and conducts trend analysis based on available data and makes recommendations to SAPS; and
- Investigation Services, which manages and conducts investigations in line with the IPID Act provisions.
Mr Beukman stated that the Auditor General had questions about IPID performance information, and asked whether things are on track with the spending focus.
Mr Maake said that he is unsure if the police are adhering to their obligation to report criminal behaviour within SAPS to IPID, and asked what mechanisms are in place to deal with this. He asked why the percentages they were given are so low.
Ms Mmola asked why the deadline is 72 hours and not 24 to 48 hours.
Ms Molebatsi asked how IPID will improve on the12.6% vacancy rate to reach the required 10%.
Mr Beukman asked if the other programmes are coming on board, and if the police are cooperating.
Ms Kohler-Barnard commented that she knows of situations where IPID will say that nothing has been brought before them, but the police state that there is a SAPS member in court for rape that was never reported.
Mr McBride replied that when they take the issue of non-reporting up with the provinces, the provinces are reluctant to prosecute. In the mean time they have engaged with the National Prosecuting Agency (NPA) to establish a provision in the MOU to prosecute cases of non-compliance, to begin eroding the sense of impunity that exists within SAPS.
Mr Sesoko stated that the NPA is not sure if the police were aware of their obligation, even though the law is clear that ignorance of the law is no excuse for non-compliance. When they become aware that the police did not report to IPID, they then open a case against the police, investigate that case and send it to the NPA. The extent of the support they get is that they do get support from SAPS management, but that support does not trickle down to the lower level. But at the highest level they do get that support. At strategy deliberations, they look at variables like capacity and that will be the most overriding factor – what capacity do they have.
Mr McBride said that he is unable to give a blanket reassurance on whether that cooperation always translates. In regards to physical security, the intention was to give ICD teeth by transitioning it to IPID. In every criminal syndicate that exists, you need a policeman to make it happen. IPID will elicit a response. Before they can actually exhibit their teeth they need to make sure they are dealing with the response that will come. Other Chapter 9 institutions, oversight bodies, they have their own security component. IPID has none. On the matter of private investigators helping IPID with backlogs, there have been a number of private investigators that have assisted them for free, which has enabled them to solve some complex investigations.
Mr Sesoko added that the issue they are currently dealing with that of the NPA’s failure to prosecute. Within Information Management, is the sub-programme of statistics. They also have a database that deals with information.
Programme 3: Legal Services
Mr Sesoko said the purpose of Programme 3 is to manage and facilitate the provision of investigation advisory services and provide litigation advisory service. The programme consists of:
- Legal Support and Administration which manages the Directorate’s legal obligations and develops and maintains systems and procedures, norms, and standards to guide legal support;
- Litigation Advisory Services, which is responsible for coordination of civil and labour litigation as well as coordination of the granting of policing powers; and
- Investigation Advisory Services, which provides legal guidance to investigators, and ensures that all cases that are forwarded for prosecution comply with the requirements of the prosecution process.
Ms Kohler-Barnard asked why there was under-expenditure.
Mr Sesoko replied that the under-spending in Legal Services was because of the vacancies in that programme.
Mr Beukman commented that Legal Services should be fully funded and fully staffed.
Mr Maake asked if all the members of IPID are vetted.
Mr Sesoko replied that all of the appointments will be finalised in the next few weeks. They do vetting, they have an excellent relationship with the State Security Agency. They have a small unit, which does the preliminary vetting before they hand it over to SSA. In terms of the Act, they have to have capacity to review the security clearances that people have.
Mr Maake responded that he wants to get a feel of how the vetting is done. They interview a person and then from there the person waits for the vetting and then from there the person fails the vetting or alternatively the person decides not to go through, so then they advertise again? In some departments, the person is vetted after they have been appointment which does not make any sense to him.
Mr McBride replied that the Act says the person may not be appointed as an investigator unless the person has undergone an appropriate security screening. On at least two occasions, he has decided not to appoint someone because of a security issue. On two occasions they have done ad hoc integrity testing on certain officials when certain matters have arisen. Yes, they take vetting very seriously and understand integrity of the whole organization is the key to ensuring their independence. As an approach they work with a number of organisations, including the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation, South African Revenue Service, SSA, whatever will help them develop the most important integrity model.
Programme 4: Compliance Monitoring and Stakeholder Management
Ms Mariaan Geerdts, Acting Chief Director: Compliance Monitoring and Stakeholder Management, explained this programme safeguards the principles of cooperative governance and stakeholder management through ongoing monitoring and evaluation of the quality of recommendations made to SAPS and the Municipal Police Service (MPS) and to report on the police service’s compliance with reporting obligations in terms of the IPID Act. Compliance Monitoring evaluates the quality of recommendations made and SAPS, MPS, and NPA responsiveness.
Mr Beukman stated that SAPS voiced concerns about the IPID recommendations, that they do not know what to do with them. He would like to get a response on that.
Mr Maake asked if they could mention some of their stakeholders.
Ms Molebatsi asked if reports on the implementation of IPID recommendations are being monitored. When they visit police stations they find them hidden away somewhere, not being attended to – are they being monitored?
Mr Mbhele asked if he could get some detail on the nature of the Community Policing Forum (CPF) meetings. It is a useful symmetry between those structures to maximize on. Is it a case of reporting on IPID structure, is it receiving inputs? Getting feedback?
Ms Kohler-Barnard stated that there seems to be a removal of targets throughout the presentation, and the Committee would like IPID to ensure the inclusion of indicators to measure the recommendations made to SAPS. They want indicators for this and she is not seeing any indicators being produced.
Ms Molebatsi asked why the recommendations are not listed amongst its strategic priorities.
Mr Beukman stated that SAPS has now indicated “implementing IPID recommendations” as a target.
Mr Sesoko stated that they currently have a target looking at the recommendations they make. It provides them with the responsibility to monitor compliance by the SAPS with their recommendations. At an operational level they have monthly meetings, both at provincial and national levels to monitor their compliance.
Ms Geerdts stated that they have checks and balances to verify the quality of the reports. They established a tool to evaluate their recommendations based on a scientific nature and deals with checking the quality of the content as well as the format. Also, during their contact with SAPS, they are welcome to notify IPID if they have a problem with the recommendation and IPID will attend to it. The door is always open for SAPS to express concern over a recommendation. They are now at a point where they are pulling in Metro Police at the provincial level. Programme 4 is a new programme in IPID. They wanted to create a programme to improve monitoring of the IPID Act. Most of the targets are new – some of them may not arise. One of the core things they had to look at is the implementation of the SMART principle in their strategic planning and management. The targets must be simple, achievable, and time bound. They must take into account the kind of capacity that they currently have but as much as they consider that, it does not mean that they do not have the capacity to do what needs to be done to implement the mandate of the IPID. As a department they have a legal obligation to conduct meetings with the Community Policing Forum (CPF) structure. They go into different forums where they seek to influence the debates and give feedback on the kind of work they do. In the fight against crime they must try to be involved in various forums so that they can take into account the various views. The programmes of IPID are the result of the views of the community. Their other stakeholders are SAPS, the NPA, the Civilian Secretariat, the Public Protector, and the South African Human Rights Commission, among others.
Mr Sesoko added that they issue directives for how the provinces should deal with the implementation of recommendations. IPID will arrest police officers within 24 hours who have abused their power.
Mr Beukman asked at what level is their interaction with SAPS?
Ms Molebatsi asked what happens in the event where after investigating, they find that there is not enough information and they are forced to close the case, but then afterwards new information surfaces.
Ms Kohler-Barnard stated that the Act calls for IPID to report twice a year to the Committee on the impact of their recommendations, and she does not remember such reports taking place. She asked when the last report was given to the Committee.
Mr McBride stated that when cases have been closed and new information surfaces they reopen the case and review. He has not had the chance to check the reporting responsibilities.
Mr Sesoko added that they reported in 2012/13 and they are in the process of tabling the report for 2013/14, so they are aware of their reporting obligations. In regards to the interaction between IPID and SAPS, they have monthly meetings at the provincial level, where the provincial heads meet with the heads of the Secretariat, and one of the deputies of the provincial commissioners. Then there are national meetings with the consolidated information from the provincial meetings. IPID wants updates on how far they are in implementing the recommendations that they provided them. The meetings are chaired by the Civilian Secretariat of the Police.
Ms Kohler-Barnard asked about the status of the investigation into the National Police Commissioner and the Provincial Police Commissioner of the Western Cape. Has it been completed? If yes, why has it not been released?
Mr Beukman asked if the two internal auditing posts have been filled.
Ms Molebatsi asked to what extent stress is a contributing factor in some of the problems that IPID encounters.
Mr McBride stated that the positions in Corporate Governance and Internal Audit are to be advertised at the same time as the positions are posted. On the investigation into allegations of the National Commissioner being accused of defeating the ends of justice, it has been completed by IPID, submitted, and they are awaiting the outcome. With regards to stress, the police do a thankless job. They are only called upon when things go wrong, and they are expected to be courteous, operate with humility, yet they are also required to make instantaneous split-second decisions. They have seen over the last couple of years the increase in the deaths of police on duty, increase in suicide and family homicide. Police are often seen as the spoilers of people’s fun. They are subject to abuse, insults, and ridicule. In the view of IPID, there is insufficient realisation by society, by NGOs, of the rights of police officers. They often hear of “everyone has the right to life”. Most people forget that the police also have that same right to life. Police are expected to protect life, liberty, and property in dangerous environments. All of this contributes to a police environment where they are second-class citizens and their job is thankless.
Ms Kohler-Barnard asked for the date when the investigation was completed.
Mr McBride stated that he will find out the date for her, but that it was probably within the last two weeks.
Mr McBride concluded the meeting by saying that once IPID has instituted its mandate, it is obvious that it is not sustainable unless they are adequately staffed and resourced. Hence there is a need for developing their expansion strategy. They ask for support from the community. They will also make it available. By the end of the month they will have a finely tuned plan which they request the Committee to consider, assess, and give support. They need to intensify the training of their investigators, utilize the services of other agencies and their own resources, so that they can deal with more complex investigations. This includes systemic corruption and criminal enterprises within SAPS.
- PC Police: Consideration of 2014/15 Budget and Annual Performance Plan hearings of South African Police Service 3
- PC Police: SAPS 2014 Strategic Plan: Programme 4: Crime Intelligence; IPID APP & Budget 2
- PC Police: SAPS 2014 Strategic Plan: Programme 4: Crime Intelligence; IPID Annual Performance Plan & Budget 1
- PC Police: SAPS 2014 Strategic Plan: Programme 4: Crime Intelligence; IPID APP & Budget 3
- PC Police: SAPS 2014 Strategic Plan: Programme 4: Crime Intelligence; IPID APP & Budget 1
- PC Police: Consideration of 2014/15 Budget and Annual Performance Plan hearings of South African Police Service 1
- PC Police: Consideration of 2014/15 Budget and Annual Performance Plan hearings of South African Police Service 2
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