SABC Restructuring: progress Report

Meeting report

COMMUNICATIONS PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
13 August 2002
SABC RESTRUCTURING: PROGRESS REPORT

Chairperson

Overview of the SABC presentation
Broadcasting Amendment Bill as published (.pdf)
Broadcasting Amendment Bill as published (Word version)

SUMMARY
The SABC presentation highlighted the need to disassociate radio from television, specifically as far as news broadcasting was concerned. Mr Vincent Maphai was of the opinion that a significant amount of their mandate had been achieved and more was set to be achieved in the near future and that the past two years had been a learning experience. Specifically with regard to language, universal access and employment equity Mr Maphai felt that significant strides had been made. The SABC was the single largest investor in local programming, and black people owned 57% of the companies that were used by the SABC.

Mr Maphai denied suggestions of people being forced out of the SABC due to political interference and labelled it as "editorial speculation". Movements in the upper levels of the SABC was said to be due to a shift in strategy within the SABC. Regarding the news, the SABC had no intention of becoming a propaganda machine. An attempt was being undertaken to determine a national reference framework, the aim of which was to create pride in South Africa. An important priority of the SABC was to deliver on the language mandate, in terms of a greater diversity of programming for different languages, however the lack of adequate funding was for the program was highlighted. Plans for SABC Africa included increasing its content to make it the major focal point of African coverage, not just for Africa but for other continents as well. He indicated that SABC would welcome the opportunity to work with the Committee on the drafting of the Broadcasting Amendment Bill.

MINUTES
The Chair welcomed the SABC board members, many of whom the Committee had not met previously. He handed over to Mr Vincent Maphai, the Chairperson of the SABC Board.

Briefing
Mr Maphai welcomed the opportunity to be accountable to the public with regard to the activities of the SABC. Unfortunately recently appointed Ms Barbara Masikele was unable to attend this meeting but sent her apologies.

Mr Maphai began by saying that the past two years had been an important learning experience for all at the SABC. He also indicated that there were many new faces that were before the committee today and he wished to introduce them.

The people who were present from the SABC were:
Mr Herman Warren (Strategy)
Ms Kitten Matthews (Chief Legal Advisor)
Dr Yvonne Muthien
Dr Melanie Chait
Ms Sibongile Nene
Dr William
Dr Fritz Kok
Ms Mmathoto Lephadi
Ms Bongi Shimbambo (Board Secretary)
Prof Ruth Teer-Tomaselli
Mr Ashwin Trikamjee
Mr Solly Mokoetle
Ms Thami Mazwai (News Programming Chairperson)
Mr Peter Matlare (CEO)
Mr Mathatha Tsedu (Acting Chief Executive of News)
Dr Ihron Rensburg
Prof Derek Swartz
Dr Namane Magau
Mr Robin Nicholson

Mr Maphai indicated that the challenges facing the SABC at the moment were in the areas of news restructuring, universal access and employment equity. He was of the opinion that a great deal of progress had been made in the implementation of the current Broadcasting Act.
He indicated that a three-year strategy plan had been devised and was already being implemented.

A policy review had been undertaken, not just of news and languages but also of all aspects of broadcasting, and Mr Maphai was of the opinion that significant progress had been made. Mr Maphai cited the statistic of two million more people having access to radio as being very significant as an indication of the progress that the SABC has made in bringing the media to the people. Five and a half million people have received at least one new (media) service, and three quarters of a billion rand had been spent on local content.

Moving on to financial standing, Mr Maphai indicated that the SABC was now more profitable than it had been before.

It had been shown that the audience of the SABC had grown in the recent past and that the SABC was reclaiming prime time slots.

Finally, as regards the greater South African community, he said that there were 135 different projects that furthered the 'African renaissance' and that the health education on HIV/Aids that was broadcast by the SABC had recently been congratulated by the Minister of Health.

Mr Peter Matlare, CEO of SABC, began his speech with the comments that the current financial climate made profitability a great challenge for media companies. He mentioned that the rising cost of technology, the stagnation of the advertising industry and the retrenchments and insolvencies not only locally by internationally had contributed to a difficult financial climate.

Although Mr Matlare believed that significant progress had been made in the implementation of the Broadcasting Act, regulatory and legislative changes had lead to increased costs.

Specifically, progress had been made in the areas of corporatisation, realignment of structure, and reviewing policy, strategy and technology.

Referring to the concerns of the committee in October Mr Matlare indicated that local language content had increased and would increase in the future. Transmission coverage would increase and the concept of "nation building" would be encouraged.

Mr Ashwin Trikamjee then spoke on the content hub that was available. A reservoir of programming issues had been collected and analysed. In particular the problem of language would be analysed and a workshop would take place in November. He cited the recent correctional services investigation by the special assignment team as an example of the excellent local content that was available. The SABC has received 17 accolades in drama, and Generations had reached its 1000^th episode.

He went on to talk about sport and assured the members that he would field questions on the failure of the SABC to broadcast the soccer world cup. However he did point out that the commonwealth games had been broadcast by the SABC and that the SABC had the rights to the world cup cricket.

Mr Solly Mokoetle then continued speaking about compelling programming. He indicated that the SABC was the single largest investor in local programming, and that black people owned 57% of the companies that were used by the SABC.

He mentioned that programming cycles were finalised 3-6 months ahead of the time when they were actually broadcast, and so a change at this point only has an effect 6 months in the future. It was his mandate to close the gap between the ratio of audiences and advertising in the media.

Of specific importance was the tender/commissioning procedure of the SABC, which had caused a lot of angst in South Africa.

It was pointed out that the programming should strive to move away from a transmission budget, and attempt to focus two to three years in advance as regards programming.

It was said that the major weakness at this point was the unstructured nature of the programming. For example educational programming should be known to be at a certain time on every media device.

Mr Thami Mazwai, the news-programming chair, indicated that there was a new reference framework - the aim of which was to create pride in South Africa. He referred specifically to the Grootvlei prison exposé that had lead to a major outcry in South Africa. Mr Mazwai said that there were three major challenges facing news programming:
-to entrench democracy
-to contextualize the listener/viewer that he/she is an African
-to put Africans in their rightful place in the International community

He stated that news should not be drawn by outdated clichés such as objectivity and the right of the editor.

Mr Mathatha Tsedu then began from the point of the news renewal process. The weather presenters had all now been made to be live, and that radio had now been separated from television as this had badly disadvantaged radio in the past.

It was pointed out that editorial content is always a struggle, simply as a result of the changing nature of the content. However a major skills audit was underway to assess the current position.

Dr Ihron Rensburg spoke about the background to Policy review. He pointed out that underlying policy was the Bill of Rights, which supported unity, diversity, non-racialism, democracy, equality etc. There must be a focus on telling South African Stories and creating a national identity. Rather than focus on poverty, Aids and crime, achievements should be highlighted.

Content needed to be clear and there needed to be editorial responsibility and impartiality. The focus will be on these key values, and a workshop would be held in November to examine these issues.

Prof Derek Swartz, the Chairperson of Human Resources, indicated that there were approximately 3000 full time employees at the SABC and 7000 part time employees. He used the analogy of a small rudder on the Titanic to illustrate that strong critical drivers were necessary in order to focus the SABC. He wished to increase the leadership that was already there and reduce on-air faults and in so doing preserve the integrity of the information.

Dr Namane Magau, the Audit Committee chairperson spoke briefly on the financial position of the SABC and indicated that the real financial position would only be known when the financial report was complete.

Mr Kennedy Masau spoke about the general downturn in the industry, and that better internal control was necessary. He praised the new auditors, as represented by Mr Robin Nicholson, and suggested that when the SABC privatised it would have much better financial reports than it had had previously.

Dr Vincent Maphai then ended off the presentation of the SABC by returning to the question of devoting time to news and current affairs.

Dr Maphai was most emphatic about the fact that he had, after nearly two years, finally got the right team together. He mentioned that it took 5 minutes to demolish the team, but took 2 years to build it. Specifically he praised Mr Matlare whom he said would have been challenged to get more than 6 hours sleep in the last week.

Discussion
Mr Kekana then took the floor and praised the SABC for keeping to the time limit. He opened the floor for questions.

Ms Smuts (DP) began by asking whether the SABC had determined the viability of the services that they offer. She referred to the Broadcasting Amendment Bill and the licencing of a new broadcaster that would have a Northern and Southern language channel. Specifically Ms Smuts wanted a breakdown of the costs of these programmes. She also wished to know, in terms of the (as yet untabled) Broadcasting Amendment Bill, where the funding would come for another state broadcaster, and whether digital platforms exist to make this a reality. In short she indicated that "we cannot go forward until we know what is proposed".

Mr Kekana then pointed out that he was unsure as to whether it was fair to expect the SABC to comment on an amendment that was as yet not gazetted, and that the SABC should use their discretion as the question might not be entirely fair.

Ms Vos (IFP) questioned the amount of hands-on management that was possible. She specifically pointed out that the board meets 5-6 times a year, while management might run ahead of the board. She questioned if this was this the case and also wished to know what problems the SABC had with the Broadcasting Act.

An IFP member complimented the SABC on programming in blocks (as mentioned above) and that the SABC had divided radio from Television from print media. He mentioned that the media should, ideally be like a mirror reflecting the views of the community. One of the things he was particularly concerned with was the correction of errors at the SABC. He gave the example of when he was named as part of the 'freedom alliance' a party that does not in fact exist! He inquired as to what mechanism were in place to correct mistakes and furthermore wondered whether it would not be possible to have simulcasts done on radio stations while television programmes were shown in order to facilitate the learning of new languages.

Mr Pieterse (ANC) after suggesting that the honourable member from the IFP pay his television licence, wanted to know why the newsmaker on Sunday had been removed. He wanted to know whether SABC Africa could not be sold to CNN and finally, whether black economic empowerment was economically viable.

Mr Abraham then took the floor and congratulated the Board on their work. He appreciated the passionate address by Mr Thami Mazwai on nation building. Mr Abrahams wished to know what the constraints were in the mandate. He felt that the Board should be brutally frank about ways that the existing legislation might restrain them. Poverty was also an issue for Mr Abrahams, and he wanted to know how the poor were to be empowered and how, for example, the elderly were empowered by actuality programmes showing them where to apply for a pension.

Ms Van Wyk suggested that regional issues should be given more of an emphasis. She noted that, incredibly, the Free State was not included as being a place that would be given more Afrikaans coverage. She also suggested that subtitles could also be in Afrikaans. She wished to know what was being done to support the explosion in the Afrikaans music arena. Finally she noted with dismay that the amount of violence on the television was disproportionately large at this time, and that she wished for it to be reduced.

Mr Ace Legoro (ANC) was given the floor and he also praised the progress that the SABC had made. However he was concerned about the amount of senior staff that were leaving the SABC. Thus his question was, what was the SABC doing to retain its senior staff members?

Mr Maphai explained that the SABC had not come prepared to answer questions on the new Broadcasting Amendment Bill but said that the SABC were factoring in new developments. Their approach thus far has been to act as though there has been only the one Act, and they would continue to deal with it as such unless instructed otherwise by the Committee.
In its first year the Board had actually micromanaged. Management has been put in place during the period of transition. When managing during transitions, one was apt to either act too quickly or too slowly but the intention was to run the SABC in terms of modern concepts of corporate governance.

He thanked Dr Mulder for his comment that the news was not just made up of fact, and acknowledgement that there are statements behind them. The SABC had neither the intention of becoming a propaganda machine nor of treating the South African public in a paternalistic way. Usually there were judgment calls to make, without thought to questions of right or wrong. The SABC were aware of these subtleties, and though they did not have all the answers they were taking them seriously.

Concerning the language policy, he said that two years ago the Board had alerted the Committee about their concerns regarding the Bill's funding requirements to deal with the funding mandate. The last thing that was wanted at the time was to reject the law without having tried it, however since then the law had been followed and the Board has made suggestions for amendments to the Act. The CEO had been requested to consider if the current funding model was accurate.

Mr Matlare responded that it was understood that if funding was necessary, there was a need to look at funding in terms of the core areas, for example, should R100 million be spent to broadcast the World Cup when the same money could be put into language delivery. An attempt was being made to increase delivery in different languages however funding was inadequate. Specific requests would need to be made if there was an intention to extend delivery in terms of specific language audiences. The SABC would need to work with the Ministry and Treasury in order to obtain funding. The intention was to address language programming in a way that was entertaining to the public.

Mr Maphai continued that recently people have left the SABC however others had replaced them. There had been reports of them being pushed out and of political interference but none quoted Mr Mthombothi as the source and it was editorial speculation. Until Mr Mthombothi responded himself, he should be treated as an adult and left to respond.

Ms Mazwai explained the concept of a reference framework, which is created during one's youth, schooling and general life experience and is informed by the customs of one's people and what they consider to be right or wrong. The nation itself will have a reference framework, however South Africa does not, as the SABC had previously been seen as the enemy. There was therefore a need to develop a reference framework.

Mr Maphai continued that the words used in reporting were determined by one's opinion; for example, a Muslim journalist sent to the Middle East would tend to use his reference framework. The same would go for a journalist reporting on the African practice of circumcision. A non-African journalist might describe it the practice as barbaric, while an African journalist who had gone through it himself might convey feelings of pride. At the end of the day, the editor would have to use the wisdom of his experience to show how the issue would be brought forward. The SABC were trying to address these issues. The news model would have to be sensitive to all the diverse cultures and different races and laws relating to hate speech. Objectivity will always lie in the eyes of the beholder and there was no such thing as a universal experience. These are challenges that face the people of the country and not just the SABC.

The issue of the availability of Afrikaans reporting for parliament was a thorny issue. Afrikaans had at least one radio presenter for Parliament and that was more than most of the other national languages had.

Regarding SABC Africa, the intention was to sell the contents thereof but that would not happen just yet. The problem at the moment was that it was not run in the same way as state broadcasters on the continent but the intention was for it to become the major focal point of African coverage, not just for the continent but abroad as well. The SABC was currently liasing with Multichoice to make it a part of Multichoice's preliminary package.

Representivity of the Board was also done in terms of ensuring a good skills mix.
On the issue of radio, television tended to emphasise the disadvantage of radio. He had noticed recently that SAFM had presented a whole range of Afrikaans music in English and felt that this should be encouraged.

The Head of Human Resources for the SABC noted that the transformation was being taken seriously and assured the Portfolio Committee that they would be provided with more details to ensure that they were kept updated. The challenge was to ensure the promotion of skills levels of the people on board and to ensure that historically disadvantaged people were represented at middle management level. The reason for people leaving was due to a shift in strategy and there were therefore bound to be movements, which often happened at the top level. When talent is developed at the SABC, those who require such skills target them. The SABC was trying to create a more enabling environment so that people would feel at home at the SABC. Incentives were being offered, as they were operating in a highly competitive market, so that different ways were being created to ensure that people were encouraged to stay.

Ms Chait commented, in response to Ms Smuts, that it would be wonderful if the SABC and the Committee could work together on drawing up the Bill.

Mr Matlare said, regarding the schedules that one of the plans in place was to extend SABC Africa to a news block on weekends and to broaden it to include continental and South African Affairs.

Mr Mokoetle answered the questions relating to the cost of programming. The range for a local documentary starts at R2500/minute and runs up to R12 000/minute. The reality is that the cost is escalating and the depreciation of the rand is increasing costs. Proposals from producers are now requiring the cost/minute equivalent of drama programmes, which is R15 000/minute. The SABC was also looking at how to go about reviewing the cost structure of the cost/minute and were envisaging having an average production figure which would be variable according to the level of skill of the artisans involved. Revenue resulting from international programming used to be a subsidiser of local programming, however it was found that every time the Rand now moves up by 10 cents, costs increase by R100 000. This has adversely affected the amount of international programming and the ability to which they can subsidise local programmes.

Thus far programmes had been structured to obtain viewers from the broadest spectrum. SABC 1 was carrying out its delivery mandate in a youthful manner in various "Nguni" languages as well as English. SABC 2's programmes are structures to include Sotho, Afrikaans and English, while SABC 3 focuses on English programming. The plan was to introduce current affairs programming in various African languages, and this was happening across channels. Social content was being increased in dramas, for example, Generations will have four issues of national importance relating to, amongst others, AIDS, housing and the education crisis. The intention was to not marginalize the poverty stricken public by not addressing issues relating to them. SABC 3 was focussing on the upmarket audience, unlike SABC 1 and 2, which had a public service mandate. SABC 3's mandate was to drive revenues up, which would then be used to cross-subsidise SABC 1 and 2. SABC 3 would maintain its comedy programming while improving on information and "trendy" programming, and would be driven by cheaper international programmes.

Mr Kennedy Masau added that the challenge was to ensure that whatever the result, the revenue is sustainable to enable the SABC to move forward. A culture of sustainable development was trying to be maintained.

Mr Matlare said, regarding the programming content and SABC Africa, that SABC would be in a better position to provide a blue print in about three months. They were focussing on content but there was also a need to prevent marginalisation of other languages and ensure that, for example, Sesotho programming was not removed to fit in SABC Africa. SABC also did not want to emphasise American viewing content so, for example, they had been offered the Big Brother show but had chose not to have it. There was also an increasing use of sub-titling.

Mr Maziya (ANC) referring to the languages in which the news was broadcast, questioned why the Afrikaans news at 7pm could not be swapped with an African language broadcast at 9pm as was done with the African languages.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen (ANC) commended the SABC for having sign language interpreters during broadcasts on special events and stated that more of that was needed. She noted that there had also been an increase in deaf listeners due to the increased use of sub-titling. She questioned why interpreters were not used on the news all of the time and why the message being sent out by the news presenter and the sign language interpreter did not always correlate. She asked if the SABC had any policy in terms of sign language.

Mr Gore (DP) asked, in the light of independence in news content and the question of a national framework, if the Independent's Code of Conduct would be done away with.

Ms Mutsila (ANC) commented that SABC's music videos seemed to be targeting the 12 - 25 year old market and inquired if SABC had ever thought of looking at music for older people.

Prof Turok (ANC) asked for information on how many US crime shows are being shown on SABC in one month and compared to the other shows that are broadcast, as well as how this related to the South African frame of reference that was in the making.

Mr Magashule (ANC) inquired as to SABC's readiness in terms of the WSSD. He also asked where the commercial revenues were coming from.

The chair questioned if revenue from black radio stations was being used to subsidise SAFM.

Dr Mulder (FF) asked if a frame of reference was already in place and stated that he would like to be made party to the discussion on it. He questioned if it were necessary to standardise radio stations bearing in mind that people probably do no "hop" from one radio station to another the way they do television channels.

Mr Maphai commenting on news independence, equated the way in which the Board related to the news room as being similar to the way in which the Portfolio Committee related to the SABC. There was absolutely no notion of independence to the extent that the newsroom was free to do whatever they wished, in the same way that the SABC was not free to do what they liked with the SABC.

Mr Matlare explained that a policy was being put in place regarding interpreters and the SABC would ensure that most of its news broadcasts would have news interpreters.
The SABC was fully ready as regards the WSSD. Any details that the Committee required could be provided. The SABC would be spending R30 million on the WSSD.
Regarding profits, all money was being reinvested. Cross-subsidising did not necessarily mean taking money away from one body and putting it into another. Focus was being placed particularly on investing in African language programming. The wonderful thing about programming was that if you did not like one thing it could always be substituted with another. SABC was also trying not to have exactly the same programming on every channel at the same time.

Mr Mokoetle talked about the retention of audiences. The nature of television viewing required the establishment of a pattern so that people would know when to find a particular programme. That was how the languages for the news was established. The impact of changing the news was been looked at as it would have an impact on profitability. The issue had not been ignored, however any movement of programming required research.
On the issue of music for the elderly, SABC 2 focuses on family programming. There were already two programmes on SABC 1 and 2 that focussed on music for the elderly.
Prof Turok's question could not be answered, as the statistics were not available at the time. However the SABC were ever conscious of the need to reduce violence on television. Even if there was going to be language or violence, sufficient warning of it was provided.

The Chair stated that the Committee was waiting for the Bill to be tabled and would welcome any input from the SABC and the public. Consideration needed to be given to reaching out to those people for whom parliament was out of reach.

Meeting adjourned.