Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) on its 2013 Annual Report

Economic Development

16 October 2013
Chairperson: Ms S Coleman (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

The Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) showcased some of its successful projects. It provided video excerpts of an upcoming film they had invested in and another of a Grey’s Anatomy episode, which featured the Lodox Systems full body low dosage x-ray, which was a Proudly South African company.

Though a large portion of IDC funding was ring-fenced for mining, renewable energy was also a priority for the IDC, and the aim was for more locally produced components. The IDC stated that it was very thorough with each application but it ensured that its application response turnaround time was 15 days. The IDC said that it did not only provide funding and expect re-payment, but did the ground work before investing and also had a department that maintained close relationships with clients after the cash injections and provided expertise when the funded projects needed it.

The wide-ranging discussion covered topics such as the risk of loan impairments; how the IDC publicized the Funds that were on offer; how they borrowed money to meet funding commitments; and why the IDC concentrated on capital intensive projects when the focus should be on labour intensive projects. IDC explained that they sometimes invested in capital intensive industries that could unlock other industries downstream or upstream and would be able to create jobs. Other topics were queries about making job creation a condition for funding; did the IDC think government would meet its target of five million new jobs by 2020 and what was IDC’s experience of getting access to land that was controlled by chiefs. Members also spoke about the importance of cooperatives and asked about projects in specific provinces that needed IDC funding such as the tomato-farming project in the Limpopo and the bio-fuel project in the Free State.

Meeting report

Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) on its 2013 Annual Report
Mr Geoffrey Qhena, IDC CEO, took the Committee through the report.

Funding Approvals by Business Unit
The mining value chain received the largest portion of funding.
- Renewable energy also continued to receive high levels of funding.
- The agricultural value chain and downstream manufacturing industries received 24% of funding, with the largest portion of manufacturing approvals going to downstream metals industries.

Maintaining High Levels of Investment
Maintained high levels of funding approvals
- Implementation of projects approved in previous years gained traction with funding disbursements increasing to a record level of R16 billion.

Impact on Job Creation
Over the past five years funding that IDC had approved was expected to facilitate the creation of 114 000 jobs, to save 37 600 jobs and create 8 000 formal jobs
- The total expected impact was more than 160 000 jobs
- Bulk support over the past year focused on improving conditions in capital intensive industries to build the base for jobs to be created in downstream industries. However this had resulted in a decline in the jobs impact for 2013 compared to previous years
- More labour intensive sectors such as downstream metals, clothing and textiles and agro-industries also contributed a large number of jobs.

Regional Development
Over the past five years, 53% of South African approvals were for projects outside Gauteng, Western Cape and KwaZulu Natal. The six other provinces, which were less industrialized, contributed 36% to South Africa GDP.

Investment Elsewhere in Africa
The IDC aimed towards a more proactive approach for investment in the continent aimed at integrating value chains leading to higher levels of South African economic growth and job creation.
- This would improve the competitiveness of industry in the region as a whole.
- IDC was also providing lines of credit for Development Finance Institutions (DFIs) in the rest of the continent to assist in the development of small businesses making use of South African products.
- Investment approvals during the last year included: cement production in Ethiopia; gold mining and brick-making in Zimbabwe and a hotel in Ghana.

Developing Industrial Capacity - Steel
IDC’s objective in the steel industry was to create a competitive steel industry and stimulate labour-intensive value - adding downstream industries.
- IDC strategy focused on securing supply of raw materials used for making steel as well as increasing supply in the basic steel industry.
- Although companies in the sector tend to be capital intensive with relatively few jobs created directly, future indirect impact on job creation could be massive as downstream industries were unlocked.

Developing Industrial Capacity - Other Industries
The IDC continued to play an important role in the development of other industries identified in government policy as fundamental to South Africa’s further industrialization.
These include: Forestry and wood products; Chemicals; Clothing and textiles; Healthcare; ICT and Tourism.

The IDC listed numerous case studies of their investments and projects. Three of the most interesting case studies were:

1. Lodox Systems (Pty) Ltd
Lodox Systems was a Proudly South African company producing the world’s first full-body, low-dose digital X-ray imaging system. This was a huge advancement in medical trauma management with the ability to provide full-body x-ray images in 13 seconds. The technology was unique and still unmatched globally. Lodox had achieved success in eight countries and had 40 installations in its 11th year of trading. The IDC had donated the Lodox to Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital and Charlotte Maxeke Hospital to provide world-class level of trauma care. The Lodox won an award for Top Innovation Concept in the 2013 Accenture Innovation Index Awards.

2. Feature Films
The IDC had help fund three local low-budget feature films. They had also funded an animated movie, which was the most successful South African feature film with over two million ticket sales globally. Another movie to be released on 28 November 2013 was Long Walk to Freedom.

3. Union Carriage and Wagon (Pty) Ltd
The IDC had assisted a black female entrepreneur to expand her business refurbishing rail coaches. By 2010 the business was ready to expand with another company being formed in KwaZulu Natal with the help of the IDC. In 2012 there was an opportunity for the owner of the business and other partners to acquire Union Carriage and Wagon in Gauteng. The IDC gave R210 million funding which would assist the company position itself to participate in Transnet’s rail upgrading programme.

The Chairperson thanked Mr Qhena and said as usual he had ensured that the Committee had a thorough understanding of what was going on at the IDC and what they were doing and went above and beyond with the presentation.

Mr X Mabasa (ANC) said the presentation had inspired him. He wished that learners could be exposed to this information about IDC projects as early as grade eight, so by grade 11 and 12 they wished to be engineers. Young minds needed to be inspired and have confidence instilled in them so they could start to believe in their country and themselves. He asked if there was an ongoing relationship between the IDC and South African Bureau of Standards (SABS) - was there complementarity between the two? As many of the IDC ventures were in agriculture, agriculture needed to appreciate the opportunities provided by IDC and vice versa. Even in the rural areas that hardly received rain, in interaction with the IDC, opportunities could be developed as people in certain geographical spaces felt that there was nothing they could farm.

Mr Christo van Zyl, Senior Strategist of IDC, said the IDC and SABS did not have a formal relationship, rather they had MOUs with other agencies such as CSIR, a technology innovation agency. The IDC and SABS had worked together on particular projects for instance when they were trying to establish a solar water heater industry in the country. One of the problems that came out of that project was that there was not enough capacity at SABS to test the products. Going forward there were opportunities to work together a lot closer.

Mr Mabasa said when the Committee went on an oversight visit in KwaZulu Natal, they had visited an organization where people with disabilities had produced furniture. Were there replicas of such organisations throughout the country? Also the Committee noticed that the organization fell short on non-racialism, as it was almost purely white. There should be replication of such organizations and funding provided to existing ones, like the one founded by the late Friday Mavuso, a disability activist in Soweto.

Mr Mabasa said he wanted to convince the IDC that cooperatives did not mean selling peanuts at the corner of the street. We must strive to grow and support cooperatives to the point where they could compete with the cooperatives sector of other countries. One of the biggest threats was the gap between the rich and the poor – only a few people were going up the economic ladder while leaving many behind. With cooperatives there was a great opportunity to bring many more up the corporate ladder as well.

Mr van Zyl said cooperatives had been a difficult area for the IDC in the past years. They had funded 22 cooperatives which were now turned into companies. More recently, cooperatives as seen in the current environment did not fit into the IDC’s normal funding procedure. When the social enterprise fund was established, it was specifically aimed and building social enterprises. It had been running for a year and a half and had been successful. One of the products it had produced was the African Honey Bee beekeeping and a furniture-manufacturing cooperative in the Eastern Cape. Going forward, the Small Enterprise Finance Agency (SEFA) would be playing a bigger role in the funding of cooperatives but the IDC would continue with the social enterprise fund.

Mr Mabasa said to be frank that was exactly what he did not like to hear. He knew that was what the IDC would say when they started advocating for the Social Enterprise Fund. The IDC were the people that worked all over the world, they traveled and had seen giant cooperative in the UK and Italy. He asked that they copy these and borrow best practice so that South Africa too could have giant cooperatives.

Mr Qhena said they took note of what Mr Mabasa was saying. There was a cooperative in India made up of 50 million people which was the same size as the South African population. They did try to copy from other countries and would improve on implementing the skills learnt.

Mr K Mubu (DA) said he was impressed with the informative presentation. He was disappointed that South Africans did not know about the Lodox, it was unfortunate that they got to know about it through a TV series produced in another country. It was a great achievement for the country to be proud of but what was wrong with our communication? In the allocation of funding, mining particularly in iron and steel received a large portion of funding. Was the IDC worried that there was so much labour unrest in the mining sector and about the poor performance of platinum and gold mines? Was the IDC not worried that it was investing a lot in an industry that was on the decline? Also regarding management and processing, to what extent were small-scale businesses involve in this? When driving to Soweto there was a dumpsite where a lot of poor people gathered waste to sell. To what extent could IDC help to create small scale corporative for these waste collectors?

Ms Zimbili Mosheshe, Head of IDC Marketing and Communications, said the IDC would be communicating more of their success stories and stop being so humble. Part of the IDC communication plan was to communicate its successes more.

The Chairperson asked when they would begin to see that happen. With print media, the Committee had seen that the IDC was beginning to sell itself but not as aggressively as the Committee would have hoped for but at least there was something happening. The Chairperson asked when they would start seeing the IDC explore other forms of media.

Ms Mosheshe said the IDC was looking at enhancing its media strategy. In the past they had been somewhat all over the show with the mediums they had used to communicate. The IDC was now working on a media strategy that would direct the organisation better on who were the people they should be talking to, what should the IDC be saying to those people and with which platforms could they reach those people. In terms of increased visibility, the challenge of the IDC was not about awareness about the organisation, but rather there was a lack of understanding about what they specifically did. One of the ways to achieve that was to communicate the success stories of the IDC. The Committee should start seeing the implementation of the media strategy by the beginning of December.

Mr Qhena said the IDC had not allowed people to tell their stories. The IDC had been around the country providing funding and had captured all of that but they had not allowed people to share their stories about the impact of IDC. It was more believable when someone said ‘this is what my experience is with the IDC’. That was one of the strategies they were working on. Nationally the IDC had done well, but using regional media needed to be worked on.

Mr Macheli Ntsasa, IDC Post Investment Monitoring Department (PIMD) Senior Associate, said the platinum industry was going through unrest and that was informed by the depressed platinum prices compared to the prices from a few years ago. As a result there was a lot of job shedding in the industry. The IDC could not now, because the industry was in trouble, stop spending. There were various interventions to assist the industry and bring the industry back to a profitable footing. The IDC could not withdraw funding because they had standing partnerships and had to implement interventions to protect jobs.

Mr Qhena said the mining investments were long term in nature, as much as they were aware that the industry was depressed, especially platinum. The trick was to ensure that you were on the lowest cost curve so that when times were tough you were the last one to feel the pain. The impact of the depressed platinum prices was felt on the financials of the organisation. Three out of the five platinum mines that IDC invested in were affected. They were not profitable and also had to shed jobs. The labour issue exacerbated the problem.

Mr F Beukman (ANC) said in the Annual Report Foreword by the Chairperson, she indicated one of the strategic risks for the organization was the question of impairment. They were currently standing at R1.9 billion and 7% in terms of the risk portfolio. She said that this would be monitored very closely. He wanted assurance from the IDC about what they were doing to manage that. Also, on the question of equity investment in agriculture to create jobs, on the list in the Annual Report, the IDC referred to investment in a well known institution. What about new upcoming farm processing plants and other new entrants to the market. It was very easy to invest in companies that were already well established but what was the IDC doing - where was the list of new entries in the Agro-market and job indications?

Mr Z Ntuli (ANC) welcomed the presentation, there were improvements every time the Committee met with the IDC. He advised the IDC as part of their corporate social investment to partner with the private sector and adopt an FET college. Regarding Mr Mabasa reference to the Sheltered Employment project, the last time the IDC did not know of the initiative and the Committee requested that they had a look at it to see how they could increase the capacity of the initiative. Regarding the Limpopo tomato industry, when the Committee visited them, they were complaining that the IDC was not funding them. The IDC said on the presentation that they had a turnaround strategy of 15 days. After the Committee visited Limpopo and went back there again, they were informed that the IDC had not responded. The Committee had never heard what the reasons for this were. The Limpopo provincial government gave them a grant of R18 million as it was a BBEEE project. Was the provincial government in consultation with the IDC when they gave this grant and what were the hindrances with that project? Solar energy as a renewable energy source was deemed too expensive compared to coal, for instance, what was the cause of that? Why did South Africa not have the capacity to have the solar panels locally produced so that the price of solar energy could be matched with coal energy prices? Regarding the Nguni cattle project, the Committee had visited Limpopo to see the project but there had been no progress report since then. Some people were saying the project was useless. The cattle compared to the Brahmans did not have much meat and milk.

The Chairperson said there was a challenge in growing the economy and ensuring that there was job creation. She was happy that the projects invested in did create jobs, except for the funding of the bigger projects that did not have much impact on job creation. Regarding agro-processing, when you went to other countries there were agro-processing projects run together with the Land Bank. Inside South Africa, the Land Bank did not want to be involved in projects focused on processing agricultural products. What was it that the IDC was doing to assist? Regarding the Limpopo tomato industry project, the Chairperson understood why the IDC did not want to be involved. After interrogating the project, the Committee also had its own fears but they wanted to understand what the challenges were from the IDC’s perspective. At the same time the project had the potential of assisting about 2 000 emerging farmers (with which the company was partnering) in Limpopo. The concerns the IDC wanted that company to address the Committee agreed with, but how did the IDC ensure that they also alerted those emerging farmers, so that they were aware of the IDC concerns. Currently they did not understand what was going on and why the IDC was not giving them funding. They did not understand that whatever the IDC was trying to address was for their benefit.

The issue was what was the IDC doing to ensure that there was more focus on agriculture. A lot of arable land was being diverted to other developments other than land for food production and food security challenges. That was one of the areas that needed to be focused on. Dealing with poverty had to be encouraged so that South Africa did not have to depend on Kenya, for example, whereas the country should do so on its own and create jobs. The Chairperson suggested that the IDC do something with the Land Bank in order to revitalize the agricultural sector and see more funds going in that direction.

Regarding the risk that was too high, the Chairperson asked if the country was putting too much pressure on the IDC. Understandably there were areas that were taking the bulk of the funding such as metals and transport machinery. Those were areas that government had said were areas to focus on in terms of localization. Was it too much pressure for the IDC to stand, hence the high risk? What did the IDC envision going forward, would it be able to mitigate the challenge going forward? With the film industry, the focus in the Western Cape was understood, but the potential lay in other areas too. Centralization was around Gauteng but if one looked at scenic beauty, you could go to the most rural areas - Limpopo, Mpumalanga, KwaZulu Natal and Eastern Cape. Could the IDC not do anything to increase the growth levels in those provinces and encourage youngsters to participate in the film industry in other provinces?

Mr Davis Jarvis, IDC Head of Corporate Strategy, on the issue of focus on capital intensive large projects, said one of the objectives was job creation from the investments, but at the same time IDC looked at were the indirect jobs created both downstream and upstream from investments. There would be investments upstream in a constrained industry but that actually looked to unlock opportunities in the downstream which might have more job-creating potential. A number of sectors were constrained, for example, in metals where there was not enough competition. The IDC would work on increasing competition and decrease the cost of raw materials and thereby stimulate the downstream industry. The IDC had to look at strategic areas where there was longer term potential. There was a mixture of where present capital was placed.

The Chairperson said the IDC should package it in a way where they had focus areas, but should ensure that they really did focus on those areas, so that they did not disappoint people.

Mr Qhena said that, on that note, this coming week in Pietermaritzburg the IDC would be launching an agreement between the National Youth Development Agency (NYDA), SEFA and the IDC. They had signed an agreement to cooperate in assisting youth entrepreneurs. For that agreement the IDC was making available R1 billion and SEFA over a period would make available R1.7 billion. That was only on the financing side, but they saw a need which the NYDA could fill. There would be provincial road shows where the youth would be exposed to the initiative and how they could access the fund.

Ms D Tsotetsi (ANC) said she shared Mr Mabasa’s sentiments about cooperatives. She said the Committee needed to know who the IDC beneficiaries were and where they were located, so that when they did oversight visits, they could go to those places. The Committee could share the IDC’s success stories.

Ms Wendy Mathebula, IDC Head of Risk Management, said the investments of the IDC were aligned to the National Development Plan. It was also in the organization’s structure to look at market failures. Thus the IDC looked at businesses that commercial banks did not want to touch. She would admit that the pressure was too high as a result, but the IDC was the right body to take that kind of pressure. The IDC had highly skilled industry specialists and a very effective risk management department that assessed all the risk and mitigating action to ensure that the organisation was taking calculated risks. Also there was a Post Investment Monitoring Department that maintained close relationships with IDC clients.

The Chairperson said going forward, with the current pressure the IDC was facing now, did they see themselves handling additional pressure.

Ms Mathebula answered in the affirmative, that they could handle the pressure.

Mr Qhena said as long as they were not reckless, they were the right people for the job. The organisation did acknowledge that there was risk, but they could not just glance over them they had to look at how to manage them. For instance they had a threshold that they could not exceed. Their upper limit was 20% and now it was around 18.2% and they were working and bringing it down to 15% at cost.

The Chairperson said she was asking these questions because she did not want government to over rely on the IDC and then at the end of the day they did not have sufficient funds to spend.

Mr Qhena said he would prepare a proper written response for the Committee and he would engage with the Chairperson after the meeting about the tomato-farming project in Limpopo, so that all the facts were laid out correctly. The client had asked other institutions for funding. He asked that the matter be taken “off line” and he would address the matter directly with the Chairperson.

The Chairperson suggested that Mr Qhena talk to the person that was handling the matter in the Economic Development Department (EDD). Though she understood what was going on, it was important that the IDC assist that company as there were over 2 000 emerging farmers that were part of that company. The R18 million for equipment from the provincial government would not help, 49% of that company was owned by two brothers, so the other 2 000 farmers had to share 51% of the equipment.

Mr van Zyl said funding from the IDC mostly went directly to larger businesses, but indirectly it would benefit the smaller businesses. One example was a fund the IDC issued two years ago for a company that was making synthetic fibre from recycled plastic bottles. Even though the funding was going to the factory that was manufacturing the fibre, it was benefiting the people that had to collect the plastic bottles. Another project that the Social Enterprise section was looking at was to see how to organise people in rural areas to assist with waste processing by collecting the waste and getting it to the larger metropolitan areas for processing.

Mr Qhena said they had a project with the Black Management Forum (BMF) in Soweto, which was driven by a woman who collected waste and had arrangements on how to get it recycled. There was opportunity in the waste sector that South Africa could learn from and improve on.

The CEO said they had noted the suggestion to adopt an FET. SCORE was doing it already but the IDC could do more. The question was how did they get the FET college to partner with the private sector so that schemes could be developed.

Mr Qhena said they would give a proper progress report as they were compiling detailed reports from all provinces. It was also a function of the province – the project worked well if the province came to the party. Limpopo was successful because the province was involved, so was the North West. The battle was with KwaZulu Natal which was proving to be a struggle.

The Chairperson said they had requested feedback on North West where there was the woman who was running a Nguni project, who was renting land but was facing problems the more successful she got. The main challenge was that she did not own land. She was dependent on the land provided by the Chief. How could she be assisted to acquire land, as that may be discouraging to her? She was doing well and the province could attest to that. When she spoke, you could hear she knew what she was doing and had plans. The IDC Women Entrepreunerial Fund could assist her. This was another problem: the funds the IDC offered were not marketed and one did not know whether women took advantage of that fund.

Mr Mabasa said that the chiefs of today were no longer the said wonderful chiefs; they were greedy and did not give land to their subjects.

Mr Qhena said the matter spoke to the issue of collaboration. For instance, the IDC brought the cattle, the province provided the land and then partnered with the universities as they had the know-how on the best ways to breed.

Mr Qhena spoke about the improvement in the localization of renewable energy. There were two technologies that the IDC was looking into and the IDC would be able to provide a full report on the results next year. Also on the disability issue of sheltered employment that had been raised, the IDC would come back to the Committee to report on that.

Mr Mabasa hoped to get just a comment from the IDC on their experience on land and the chiefs.

The Chairperson said the land question was a national one, she hoped that the Land Bank could assist. Mr Mabasa’s frustration was everyone’s frustration. There were a lot of people that wanted to do waste management but needed land; it would be very expensive for them to hire land.

Mr Qhena said they did collaborate with the Land Bank and in some instances the IDC had given them funds. They could improve on their relationship, especially as they did not do the agro-processing side and the IDC did. He proposed that they bring the IDC agro-processing unit to a committee meeting as there was a lot being done and the Unit could also hear the inputs of the Committee.

Ms Tsotetsi asked about the farm worker strike in the Eastern Cape and how it had affected the repayment of loans. Also on the R4.4 billion funding outside South Africa, what were the conditions, as they would surely not be the same as those of South Africans. For instance, would be easy to take action against a South African if there was non-payment?

Mr Qhena said there was only one such farm that was affected. As a condition for funding, they tell businesses that they need to respect the law; they should not pay below the minimum wage. Luckily no other farms were affected. Regarding foreign investments, a bulk of them were equity, thus the risk of repayment was not as prevalent. But they did also give loans. In those projects, the IDC would also become shareholders in that project. There was only one project that they had an issue with and that was in Zambia, other than that things were running smoothly. Also on the projects that the IDC provided loans, they had Export Credit Insurance (ECI) cover, that way they were covered.

Ms Tsotetsi said it had been said that there was lack of patriotism from the IDC in terms of job creation. The government advocated a more labour intensive focus, but the IDC was more focused on capital-intensive investments, what was the reason for that?

Mr Qhena said one of the key objectives of IDC was that they measured key outcomes, and the level of employment created was one of these. They were conscious of job creation, but they were also conscious of investing in industries that could unlock other industries downstream or upstream and create jobs. When the IDC invested in the said capital intensive projects, they never forgot about creating jobs. It may happen that in that particular year they did not create as many jobs as they would have liked, but it was not due to the IDC ignoring job creation targets.

Mr Mabasa said when firms asked for funding from the IDC, some of the conditions would motivate them in the direction of job creation; job creation should be a condition.

Mr Qhena said with each sector there were strategies on how to increase capacity. The IDC had a job fund that was deliberate in its focus. The fund says that if you create a certain number of jobs, you would get prime –3. The IDC was not making money on that scheme they were actually cross subsiding.

Ms M Mohorosi (ANC) referred to the Operations overview where Mr Qhena said he was worried about the little done in the Free State. There had been a bio-fuel project in the Free State where the plant was built and the farmers identified, but unfortunately everything had collapsed. She asked that the IDC make Free State a priority.

The Chairperson said when they were doing their strategic planning, they had also made a request that the IDC look into a project in the Free State. The Free State was still limited to the formerly advantaged farmers and there were no new entrants or assistance for new entrants.

Mr Qhena said Ms Mohorosi was spot on with the Free State matter; he was also particularly worried about the Free State. Regarding the project the Committee proposed, they wanted to use maize, which was a problem as that might lead to a food security issue, but they were looking at using sorghum.

Mr Ntuli referred to the government target to create five million new jobs by 2020. How was the IDC doing with regard to that target? The Committee saw the IDC as a leader in job creation. If they saw the target as achievable, then there was hope for the government to reach its target.

Mr Qhena said Mr Ntuli was asking a difficult question. The IDC normally counted direct jobs, they looked at the project and saw how many jobs would be created by the project. But they knew that there were indirect jobs stemming from the project. Since they did not want to get caught up in the multiplier calculation, they rather counted the direct jobs. In terms of the IDC plans, they planned to create 25 000 direct jobs per year which was not a lot. This year they were reporting the creation of 23 000 direct jobs which fell short of the target. Whether South Africa could meet the five million jobs target was very difficult to answer.

The Chairperson said that two and a half hours with the IDC was not enough, they were a large institution that had a lot going on which the Committee would like to engage on. The Chairperson said she did not want them to brush over the financials because the meeting had run out of time and suggested that they arrange a separate session for financial performance to do justice to that section of the presentation.

The Chairperson said she knew Members still had a lot of questions; they would have to do as they normally did and write them down and get written replies from the IDC.

Mr Beukman said as he was reading through the Annual Report, there was a move away from the traditional funds or borrowings from banks and international institutions, relying on the Public Investment Corporation (PIC) and the Unemployment Insurance Fund (UIF). If circumstances were to change, would the IDC be able to adapt? What was the IDC’s borrowing approach compared to the traditional sources? Were they still happy with that approach?

Mr Qhena said on the 17 October 2013, they were issuing a R1.5 billion public bond for the first time in years to meet funding commitments. Regarding the PIC funding, the IDC had issued a R5 billion unlisted private placement green bond with the PIC (to fund businesses looking to invest in clean energy infrastructure), that was for the IDC to access long term funding relatively cheaply. The IDC and the UIF had a R2bn bond for job creation in two tranches. R600 million had not been disbursed.

The Chairperson asked that they elaborate on that when they were doing the financials.

Mr Mabasa encouraged the IDC to foster a closer working relationship with the SABS; if they invested in the SABS, in the end it would benefit the whole industrial nation.

Mr Qhena said that they had noted the suggestion from Mr Mabasa and would engage on it further.

The Chairperson said when the IDC came back could they also provide information on the Distress Fund and how it had performed. How much was left and how was it used? Also how they ensured that they marketed their funds well?

Mr Qhena said they had been looking at the Distress Fund the day before and would send to the Committee a written breakdown per province and sector.

The Chairperson thanked the IDC for all the information and, if they were invited, they would be sending Mr Ntuli to KwaZulu Natal to support the IDC. He wished them good luck as they were representing the country well. This was a youthful country, where everyone wanted to be doing something and be successful. But they needed to educate people about IDC.

The meeting was adjourned.

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