Electoral Amendment Bill [PMB2-2013]: deliberations; Northern Cape and North West Provincial Managers on the state of their provinces: briefings

Meeting report

Deliberations on the Electoral Amendment Bill [PMB2-2013]
The Chairperson asked Mr A Gaum (ANC) to provide an introduction.

Mr Gaum noted that Members were allowed to present their views on the bill in a previous meeting. The next stage was to deliberate and decide whether the bill was desirable. If so, a report would be provided to the National Assembly (NA). The bill dealt with two issues:

The first issue concerned provisions for absent and special voters. There were South Africans living abroad who could be registered as voters at embassies and consulates. People absent from a district could apply for special votes. People abroad could be in a position to vote for provincial legislatures and the NA.

The second issue concerned changes in the electoral system. No constitutional amendment was required, as the changes were in line with the Constitution. The proposal was for 400 MPs in the National Assembly, with 300 seats on a constituency basis, and 100 seats proportionally allocated.  Parties would compile national lists. The coming election was to be a proportional election. Mr James Selfe (DA) had given an example of a ballot paper. If percentages were high enough, a party could get two members elected. It was a double proportional system, as it would apply to the 300 constituency based seats and the 100 proportionally allocated seats. If there was a vacancy in a constituency, the second person would be elected. It was proposed that the changes should not apply to provincial legislatures. The National Council of Provinces (NCOP) had to deal with that.

Questions had been posed to Members at a previous meeting. The Freedom Front Plus had shown unusual interest in the bill. It was probably because the bill affected smaller parties. The proposed system could result in smaller parties falling away. As such, it was against multi-party democracy. Small parties would not have the chance to get Members elected. If a party received one percent of the national vote, it would get only one seat, whereas in the past it could get four. The system was proportional at both levels. Small parties would get less representation, but that could be viewed as a trade-off for accountability.

The Chairperson asked for comment from members.

Mr G McIntosh (COPE) noted that he had not been present at the previous meeting, but had just returned from Germany and Canada, where he had asked questions about electoral systems there. The proposals of the bill were in line with democratic principles. Proportionality also had a geo-political thrust. He himself had been a constituency MP. The advantage of that was that one became the local champion. Under the current system, people did not have high levels of commitment. The principle was that one could vote for people from the local area.  People on the list had to have permanent residence in the area. There had to be local roots. Political parties in urban areas tended to dominate. He thought the principle contained in the bill a good one. He had sympathy for small parties like the Freedom Front Plus, but they would still have a vote. In Germany, a party had to get five per cent of the total vote.

The Chairperson asked if constituency boundaries would be affected.

Mr Gaum replied that the Independent Electoral Commission (IEC) had to demarcate constituencies. It was correct that the system could exclude small parties. The threshold would be lifted. The system could lead to better accountability, but a look at the proposed ballot paper indicated that the voter would have to know that it would be the first person on the list who would be elected. That person might not be well known in the constituency. Trade-offs were implied. The proposed system was not perfect, but it would create more accountability.

Ms D Mathebe (ANC) referred to registering South Africans abroad as voters at consulates. It would cause difficulties if such people had been relocated.

The Chairperson remarked that the issue had been raised before the previous election, to enable South Africans working overseas to register at embassies and consulates. The matter would be dealt with in coming amendments.

Mr Gaum remarked that the IEC had to come and give its impressions.

The Chairperson said that Mr Mabobolo from the IEC was just there to observe, but the discussion would continue on the following day. Parties also had to come up with party positions on the following day, so that the matter could be closed. The IEC had to organise an input for the following day.

Briefing on the state of the Northern Cape Province
Mr Abednego Mvula, Provincial Manager, Department of Home Affairs, Northern Cape, took the Committee through an overview of provincial performance in relation to the Annual Performance Plan for 2012/13.  Strategic priorities were secured South African citizenship and identity, and effective management of immigration. The Department of Home Affairs (DHA) Northern Cape footprint was reviewed. Capacity information included the reporting framework; capacity levels; employment equity; people and performance management; training and capacity building; filling of vacancies, and youth development programmes. The eradication of corruption and vetting was reported on.

Mr Oreokame Choche, Director Finance and Support, reported on resources and budget. Aspects covered were budget allocated and expenditure incurred; asset management; invoices paid within 30 days; revenue collected, and fleet management.

Mr Mvula concluded with a report on civic and immigration services operations, and achievements. Achievements included progress with late birth registrations, and decentralisation of human resources and finance. Challenges included delays in the resolving of queries, poor infrastructure at some ports of entry, and access to services in the province.

Discussion
The Chairperson asked about acting district managers, how long they had been in an acting capacity, and who had appointed them. It was essential that stability be established through filling key positions.

Mr Mvula replied that recruitment for a District Manager Operations (DMO) had almost been completed.  As it was a director position, appointments had to be approved by the Minister. The two directors posts not yet filled would be funded. The director posts were a new creation. Previously there had been only senior managers, who were provincial managers. All senior management positions would be filled.

Mr McIntosh commended the presentation. He noted that the rent at Upington seemed very high (page13).


Mr M de Freitas (DA) also asked about high rentals in small towns. The rent charged at Kimberley was like that charged in Johannesburg.

Mr Mvula replied that the rent was based on market values. The Department of Public Works (DPW) calculated the rent on a per square meter basis.

Mr McIntosh referred to the mobile offices. There were only two working. He asked what the drivers and clerks were doing. He had been unaware that many people entered and left through Alexander Bay. He had taken it to be a fishing port.

Mr Mvula replied that new satellite dishes were being fitted to all units. Fraserburg did not have a unit, and the Namaqua unit was at Calvinia. The mobile unit could also collect applications manually, to be processed at the nearest office. He commented that Alexander Bay was indeed busy.

Mr McIntosh referred to the demographic policy (page 29). He asked if the targets were suitable for the Northern Cape, and whether the policy was based on the national demography, or allowed for local variation.

Mr Mvula responded that justice was done to equity. There had to be equitable representation. Recruitment had to be guided by equity targets.

Mr McIntosh asked what was meant by the G-fleet (page 45).

Mr Choche replied that the G-fleet consisted of large vehicles that could be returned when not needed. It was used to help with breakdowns and to fill gaps.

Mr McIntosh asked if deportees and immigrants were fingerprinted, and if so, where the prints went.

Mr Mvula replied that illegal immigrants were fingerprinted, and the prints were registered in the Department. Illegal immigrants who had no ID, had to contact their embassy. There were some of them who contested deportation in court. If not, they were taken to Lindelwa within 20 days, and deported within 30 days.

Mr De Freitas asked about the reasons for delays with the payment of overtime (page 42). He asked when the asset system board would be up and running (page 43).

Mr Choche replied that Head Office had to approve the paying of overtime. Approval was currently awaited.

Mr De Freitas suggested that the benefits of buying or leasing vehicles should be examined (page 45).

Mr Choche replied that analysis was under way to see how much was being spent on each vehicle.

Mr De Freitas asked why there had to be a task team to deal with queries.

Mr Mvula replied that office managers kept track of the resolution of queries. A query team had to be formed to reduce turnaround time. Queries were being resolved daily. There had been animprovement.

Ms P Petersen-Maduna (ANC) asked about staff turnover, and why there had been resignations.

Mr Mvula replied that there had been resignations due to staff leaving to be with spouses. Another resignation was due to someone joining another department.

Mr McIntosh asked what BAUD stood for.

Mr Choche responded that it was an electronic system similar to LOGIS, for the purpose of managing assets. BAUD stood for Bar-coded asset audit. The system had approval of the Treasury, and had been implemented in April. Before the system, spreadsheets had had to be used.

The Chairperson asked if the Groblershoop and De Aar offices were capacitated. She asked if it was certain that Rietfontein hospital would be connected in the following quarter.

Mr Mvula replied that De Aar was fully capacitated. Vacant posts were being filled. A director would be placed in the district manager’s office. The footprint had to be increased at De Aar.  It had to be elevated to a large office.

Connectivity had been improved in the new office at Groblershoop. There were two people who worked five days per week. Two posts were being advertised.  Connectivity had to be maintained at Rietfontein hospital. It was 280 kilometres from Upington. People did not have services there.

The Chairperson asked if people were still being encouraged to approach the Department by the “know your status” campaign.

Mr Mvula answered that people were encouraged to use the website or SMS to check their status.

The Chairperson asked about duplicate IDs in the province. She asked how long it took to deal with responses from Head Office.

Mr Mvula replied that the response for duplicate IDs had not been good.  Home visits were made to people. Some of them had already moved away.  It seemed there were instances of deliberate changing of identity to run away from debt.  Duplicate ID numbers would be blocked, which would force people to come forward.  Responses from Head Office were good.

The Chairperson asked that the figures for transfers and subsidies on page 42 be explained. What was the reason for under-spending?   Expenditure had been at a 35% level -- how would that impact on the 2013/14 budget?

Mr Choche replied top-up funds would be requested at the next budgetary review. There had been a successful stakeholder forum launch. It was unfortunate that some suppliers had not supplied invoices by 25 March, while some had been received only in April.

The Chairperson commended the Department for moving around and doing the work.

Briefing on the state of the North West Province
Ms Irene Mantlhasi, Acting Provincial Manager, said a strategic overview analysis indicated that the province had achieved 73% of targets set. There had been a significant improvement over the first quarter of the preceding year in dealing with the high volume of birth registrations beyond 30 days. A provincial stakeholders’ forum had been launched. Lack of human resource capacity in health centres was a challenge, as was late birth registrations, especially in poor rural areas. Dependency on the Department of Public Works made it impossible for the DHA to improve accommodation.

Mr Steven Tylie, Director: Finance and Support, reported on the performance management and development system, provided a budget summary, and advised that payment of invoices was within 30 days, in compliance with Public Finance Management Act (PFMA) regulations.

Ms Mantlhasi concluded the presentation with a report on progress made with ID and passport applications registered and recorded within one day, permanent and temporary resident permit applications, and average time spent in queues.

Discussion
The chairperson asked about the training of officials, and whether the Department cooperated with the provinces to train people.

The Chairperson asked who did revenue collection in the province, and whether cashiers were on the LOGIS system.

Mr Tylie replied that revenue was received manually and then captured on BAS. People were being empowered with knowledge and skills.

The Chairperson asked about the possibility of online registration for people who were far from Mafikeng.

The Chairperson said that it was unacceptable to have to hear every year that the Department of Public Works could not fulfill obligations. The DHA had to do something as a department.

Mr McIntosh remarked that the briefing was intensive with regard to birth registration, but certain other areas were not covered, like Botswana ports of entry. The presentation could have been more comprehensive.

Mr De Freitas commented that there had been the same discussion about the DPW the previous year.

Mr De Freitas referred to the fact that the Provincial Manager was still employed in an acting capacity. There had to be answers at the Director General level. He agreed with Mr McIntosh that there had to be more information on ports of entry.

Ms Mantlhasi replied that there would be a comprehensive report on ports of entry in the future.

Mr De Freitas asked about mobile offices that were not operational (page 14). He asked about time frames.

Ms Mantlhasi replied that three mobile units had been taken to Centurion to receive satellite dishes. They would be operational by the first of August.

Mr De Freitas asked why offices were being leased on a monthly basis.

Mr Tylie replied that it was because the accommodation was not considered suitable, hence the signing of a three year lease was an undesirable commitment..

Mr De Freitas asked why cultural beliefs kept women from naming a child for purposes of birth registration.

Ms Mantlhasi replied that that she had gone to four hospitals to interview mothers about the matter. There was a belief that a young mother could not name a child, which meant that she had to wait for the child’s grandmother to name it. She had given a radio talk three weeks before, in which she had encouraged people name children earlier. It appeared that people did not want to decide on a name for a child before the child had actually been born.

Mr De Freitas said that information on fraud was thin (page 29). He insisted that it was not enough to suspend people for fraud. They had to be charged.

Mr Tylie replied that fraud cases went through the disciplinary route. There had been insufficient evidence to dismiss employees.

Mr De Freitas asked how the average length of time spent in queues was measured.

Ms Mantlhasi replied that it was done through the electronic queue management system.

Ms D Mathebe (ANC) remarked that the lack of tracking systems for foreign nationals was a sensitive issue. False ports of entry were being used. The process had to be speeded up.

Ms G Bothman (ANC) referred to vacant district manager posts. Funds had to be allocated to priority posts. The Committee had been hearing about problems with filling of posts for years.

Ms Mantlhasi replied that appointments from level nine upwards were made at department level. The province was unable to fill the DMO posts.

Ms Bothman remarked that it was not the duty of the Portfolio Committee to oversee interaction between the DHA and DPW managers. The situation was unacceptable. The Department had to deal with challenges in the next strategic plan.

Ms Mantlhasi responded that the DPW was a nightmare. The asset manager at head office had met with the DPW. The DHA were clients of the DPW, and it was the mandate of the DPW to provide them with offices.  She had told the DPW in a meeting three months before, that office space had to be available by the end of October, and had then shopped around for space by herself.

Ms Bothman remarked that Mafeking was very big, yet there were only two offices. There was a port of entry.  It was not a city, but a collection of villages. Villages were warm, and willing to receive anyone.  It was not easy to detect unregistered births from Botswana parents. There was only one office at the border post. If the main office was not operational, the village stood open. Due to small offices, foreign nationals remained unrecognised.  If the city pattern was to spill over into the villages, the government would lose control. The Department had to work with the security cluster. The number of foreigners in the province had to be recorded. There was a register, but it had a record only of those already there. A system had to be developed that would be connected to service points, like hospitals.

Ms Mantlhasi replied that people were not using ports of entry, and were entering illegally by jumping fences. When they were arrested, it turned out that there was no entry stamp on their documents.

Ms Bothman commended the alignment with the Strategic Plan. The Department had adhered to the undertaking made the year before to do that.

The Chairperson asked Ms Mantlhasi how she managed to do her work as Acting Provincial Manager, while at the same time was also responsible for running the district.

Ms Mantlhasi replied that she had been in an acting capacity as Provincial Manager since August 2011.

The Chairperson stated emphatically that it was unacceptable, and there was an audible outcry from all Members in support of that. She insisted that there could never be stability as long as appointment in an acting capacity was extended indefinitely. The Department had to make things happen to ensure permanent appointments to key positions. The Minister had to be informed that the situation was unacceptable.

Ms Bothman remarked that the learning academy was not providing suitable candidates for positions. Suitable candidates had to be prepared from within, and current training was not achieving that.

The Chairperson adjourned the meeting.