Provision for Motions of No Confidence in the Rules of the National Assembly: political party positions

Rules of the National Assembly

20 March 2013
Chairperson: Ms N Mfeketo (ANC) (Acting)
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Meeting Summary

Summary
The Committee met to finalise the discussions on measures to make appropriate provision for motions of no confidence in the Rules of the National Assemble. It was agreed that although the Committee did not constitute a quorum, it was important for the Committee to hear whether the consensus was reached by the parties.

The position of the ANC was that there was some common ground on the proposals although there was need for further discussion and consideration. The ANC had discussed the issues with its legal advisers but felt that this could be pushed as there was hope that the rules could be drafted in consensus with the other parties. The negotiations had practically not been completed.

The IFP stated that the Sub-Committee on Rules had deliberated for 16 hours and the deliberations were captured on a consensus document which was sent to the Rules Committee. At the Rules Committee, Members were presented with a new document from the ANC which was not a reflection of the decisions of the Sub-Committee.

The DA stated that it had submitted a proposal to the ANC and until it had received feedback and a response from the ANC, it could not engage in further discussions. COPE supported this position

The Acting Chairperson said that she had not seen any display of eagerness by the parties for the consensus to be reached. The document from the ANC was broadly what the Speaker was going to present to the Constitutional Court in the absence of consensus amongst the parties. It was simply for information and noting. An ANC Member noted that there was no need for any further debate as all the matters had been covered. If people wanted to argue legal issues on the matter, the Constitutional Court was the appropriate forum for such arguments.
 

Meeting report

The Deputy Speaker of the National Assembly chaired the meeting in the absence of the Speaker of the National Assembly.


The Acting Chairperson welcomed Members and of the committee. After the tendering of apologies by the Secretary to the National Assembly, Mr Masibulele Xaso, the Acting Chairperson presented the agenda of the day to the Committee.

The Acting Chairperson said that the Committee did not have a quorum but a decision was taken on the previous day that the meeting was going to hold on the basis that parties were going to reach a consensus before the meeting. Even in the absence of a quorum, it was important for the Committee to hear whether the consensus was reached.

Position of the different between political parties
The Acting Chairperson asked the different parties to give their position on the negotiations.

Mr J Jeffery (ANC) said that according to his party there was some common ground on the proposals although there was need for further discussion and consideration. The ANC had discussed the issues with its legal advisers but it was not a matter which could be pushed as there was hope that the rules could be drafted in consensus with the other parties. The negotiations had practically not been completed.

The Acting Chairperson requested the position of the DA.

Ms D Schafer (DA) said that the DA had presented the ANC with a proposal and it could not take any further decision until such a time when the ANC had gotten back with its views on the proposals. The DA had been very accommodating and the discussions had been held in a good spirit. Concessions had been made although there were some points which could not be gotten around.

The Acting Chairperson asked for the opinion of the IFP. She said that COPE was actually supposed to speak before the IFP but due to the sitting arrangements, the IFP could take the floor.

Mr M Oriani-Ambrosini (IFP) said that because the meeting did not constitute a quorum, there was little or nothing which could be done for the day. He wanted to place on record the history which brought the Committee to the point where it was concerning the Assembly Rules. The Sub-Committee on Rules had deliberated for 16 hours and the deliberations were captured on a consensus document which was sent to the Rules Committee. At the Rules Committee, Members were presented with a new document from the ANC which was not a reflection of the decisions of the Sub-Committee. The opposition parties had presented a counter-document to the proposal by the ANC. The counter-document carried some of the proposals and decisions from the Sub-Committee. The opposition parties had not yet received a response from the ANC. The crucial issue which was holding back the negotiations was whether the Speaker should be given the authority and the discretion to decide on whether the motion of no confidence was to be heard and when.

The Acting Chairperson said that Mr Oriani- Ambrosini was debating the issues and that was not required.

Mr Jeffery raised a point of order and said that Mr Oriani-Ambrosini was getting in to the details of the matter at hand and that was completely out of order.

The Acting Chairperson said that she had asked if parties had reached consensus on the negotiations. Every member of the Committee knew the events which preceded the meeting and everyone was equally frustrated. The two major parties had said that consensus had not been reached so the intention was just to hear from other parties so that the meeting could be concluded and not sit to simply express sentiments.

Mr Oriani-Ambrosini said that the question of the Acting Chairperson was not logical, but if he was not allowed to place the fact of the matter on record, he wanted to further place on record that he was not allowed to do so.

Adv M Masutha (ANC) said that there was a problem with Mr Oriani-Ambrosini asserting the right to place a record which was in actual fact not a true reflection of the deliberations of the Sub-Committee. He could rather say that he was expressing his view and not say that he was expressing the decision of the Sub-Committee.

Ms J Killian (COPE) said that her party held the same view as the Democratic Alliance.

The Acting Chairperson said that she had not seen any display of eagerness by the parties for the consensus to be reached. The document from the ANC was broadly what the Speaker was going to present to the Constitutional Court in the absence of consensus amongst the parties. It was simply for information and noting.

Adv Masutha said that in the light of what the Acting Chairperson had said, he did not see the need for any further debate as all the matters had been covered. If people wanted to argue legal issues on the matter, the Constitutional Court was the appropriate forum for such arguments.

The Acting Chairperson said that Adv Masutha was right.

Ms S Kalyan (DA) moved for the closure of the meeting.

The meeting was adjourned.   
 

Present

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