HIV/AIDS & TB Management Policy for Public Service: implementation by G&A Cluster; MDGs: Peace & Stability Cluster implementation; Social Development & Transformation Cluster's MDGs: briefings in presence of the Deputy Minister of Rural Development

Meeting report

The Governance & Administration (G&A) Cluster’s Implementation of the HIV/AIDS and Tuberculosis Management Policy for the Public Service, Development of HIV&AIDS Mainstreaming Guidelines and Provision of Training on HIV&AIDS Mainstreaming
The first part of this presentation was tabled by Dr Sipho Senabe, Chief Director (CD): Employee Health and Wellness, Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA). The presentation outlined the context  of the G&A cluster’s implementation of the HIV&AIDS and Tuberculosis (TB) management policy for the Public Service; the definition of HIV and AIDS mainstreaming; the HIV and AIDS and TB management policy for the public service; the process pillars for implementation of HIV and AIDS and TB management policy; the achievements on the training on mainstreaming of HIV  and AIDS; the capacity development on simultaneous mainstreaming of HIV and AIDS, gender and human rights; the gender mainstreaming training; and concluding remarks.

The G&A Cluster had the responsibility to ensure that the Public Service was an efficient, effective and development orientated public service and empowered a fair and inclusive citizenship. The G&A Cluster’s approach to the HIV&AIDS response had been through the implementation of the HIV&AIDS and TB Management Policy for the Public Service. This policy provided for the management of HIV&AIDS as a developmental issue. The United Nations AIDS (UNAIDS) definition mainstreaming  of HIV&AIDS was a process that enabled development actors to address the causes and effects of AIDS in an effective and sustained manner, both through the usual work (internal) and with their workplace (external). The process pillars for the implementation of HIV &AIDS and TB Management policy required capacity development. Those were initiatives aimed at developing individual capability of employees, managers and professionals to manage HIV&AIDS and TB management policy. It also required Systems Support Initiatives. Those were initiatives to asses and develop departmental capacity to implement HIV&TB management Policy for the Public Service. There was a need for governance initiatives to promote consultation, coordination of implementation, monitoring and evaluation among departments and other stake holders (Inter Departmental/ Other Stakeholders). Economic and Development Initiatives on an International, African Union (AU), Southern African Development Community (SADC), and bi-national level were crucial.

The capacity development initiatives involved training of Public Servants on Mainstreaming of HIV&AIDS using the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) curriculum following SADC agreements on Capacity Development for HIV&AIDS and the costing of HIV&AIDS programmes using the DPSA costing model. The Workshop on HIV&AIDS Operational Planning, which was a World Bank facilitated workshop, targeted managers in Offices of the Premier, Department of Health, and the Department of Education. The initiatives also involved a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with the Japanese International Cooperation Agency (JICA) and had developed a New Capacity Development Curriculum on HIV&AIDS Monitoring and Evaluation (M&E).  The systems support initiative provided tools for policy implementation. The generic Implementation Plan had to guide development of costed, mainstreamed operational plans. The DPSA Costing Model for HIV&AIDS programmes was developed in partnership with the Public Administration and Leadership Academy (PALAMA) and the Futures Group. Departments had to be trained on the use of this tool. The policy communication tool kit was used to communicate policy to national and provincial departments. Efforts were under way to simplify this and translate this using Knowledge Management technology in partnership with the Service Delivery Improvement unit within the DPSA.

The Governance initiative was to facilitate the coordination of implementation of HIV&AIDS and TB Management Policy for the Public Service through the Inter Departmental Committee (IDC) on HIV&AIDS. This was convened and funded by the DPSA. Offices of the Premier convened and coordinated Provincial IDCs similar to the national IDC and Updates on implementation were sent to the South African National AIDS Council (SANAC), SADC and the Ministry of Public Service and Administration (MPSA). The DPSA was one of the Government departments (Labour, Social Development and Health) that participated on behalf of Government at the National Economic Development and Labour Council (NEDLAC) on management of HIV&AIDS in the work place.  The Governance initiative involved Policy Communication Workshops to engage with Private sector service providers to assist departments to comply with HIV&AIDS and TB management policy for the Public Service. The Public Service Plan on Monitoring and Evaluation of  HIV&AIDS and TB management had been developed in consultation with the national and provincial departments together with Civil Society.  The DPSA was a focal department representing South Africa as a Member State of SADC on Mainstreaming of HIV&AIDS. Several HIV&AIDS mainstreaming projects were currently being implemented with the relevant line departments. The DPSA was the focal Department to the AU where the MPSA was the focal point on Africa Peer Review Mechanism (APRM) and HIV&AIDS was a cross-cutting issue to report on. Quarterly reports were supposed to be sent to the office of the MPSA on HIV&AIDS and other governance issues.

The Mainstreaming programmes was presented by Dr Bunny Subedar, Parliamentary Director, / Public Administration and Leadership Academy (PALAMA). The number of Government employees trained on the mainstreaming of HIV/AIDS was 528 between 2007/08 to 2009/10. The PALAMA officials were trained on mainstreaming and PALAMA was expected to develop a training curriculum based on their framework for curriculum development. The Simultaneous Mainstreaming of HIV & AIDS, Gender, and Human Rights into Public Service and Administration in the context of management of the AIDS epidemic were a SADC Initiative as per the SADC Focal HIV&AIDS Point meeting 2010. South Africa had been tasked with development of those guidelines for itself and SADC. The guidelines on simultaneous mainstreaming of HIV and AIDS, gender, human rights would also have workshop material to guide national provincial and national Government departments on implementation. The curriculum on simultaneous mainstreaming of HIV and AIDS, gender, human rights would be developed at a later stage by PALAMA using its current curriculum framework which required length and systematic process. PALAMA developed a 4-day accredited Gender Mainstreaming (GM) training programme for managers in the public sector.

The people who underwent the Gender Mainstreaming Training were 2 221 in all spheres of Government with 25% male participants. The manual and toolkit  were home-grown and  included the DPSA 8 point plan as well as all the protocols and conventions that South Africa was signatory to. This was the only accredited gender mainstreaming training programme in South Africa and was developed collaboratively with the Ministry for Women, Children and People with Disabilities and widely consulted. The Gender Mainstreaming programme adopted a human rights based and inclusive approach to mainstreaming which included mainstreaming of HIV&AIDS, disability, race, etc. It contained a well integrated awareness component that included the social construction of gender. The training was very interactive and action oriented and had experienced trainers. Each participant would complete an integrated Gender Mainstreaming Action Plan.

The Gender Mainstreaming Training enhanced the capacity to promote gender equality and monitoring of the implementation of gender policies and legislative frameworks, and raised gender equality concerns in public debate. It enhanced the capacity to influence and promote policies, programmes and legislation that would focus on addressing the real needs of women. This would also bring a sharper focus on poverty reduction and rural development programmes, as well as help make significant improvements in the lives and status of all South Africans. A lot had been done on the capacity development of national and provincial departments to mainstream HIV and AIDS and gender. Mainstreaming was now being institutionalised through policy implementation, monitoring and evaluation, and had to further work on capacity development for simultaneous mainstreaming of HIV and AIDS, gender and human rights. The DPSA needed to strengthen the coordination of the Government HIV&AIDS Response to the G&A Cluster. The DPSA needed improvement in quarterly updates to the MPSA as part of the APRM and MDG process.

Discussion
Ms A Dreyer (DA) asked on the type of training the 528 trainees received. She said that it would be a drop in the ocean if only 528 people were trained under the cluster.

Mr A Williams (ANC) asked how effective the Cluster’s engagement was with NEDLAC and asked if their was a programme in place to train shop stewards.

Mr L Suka (ANC) thanked the Department for the presentation and noted that there were areas not reached. He asked for the services to be taken forward at a faster pace. He also mentioned that the 528 trainees were not much and the Cluster had to step up on the issue because time was running out.

Mr Kenny Govender, Acting Director-General, DPSA, responded that the 528 trainees were on the “train the trainer programme.” He acknowledged that there was not extensive engagement with NEDLAC.

Dr Subedar said she noted all issues raised by the Committee and would take them forward. She said that the trainee programme targeted 400 people but the Cluster exceeded that number. The cluster needed more reporting and consultation on the NEDLAC issue.

Peace and Stability Cluster. Implementation of the Millennium Development Goals. Briefing

Ms Nonkululeko Sindane, Director-General (DG), Department of Justice and Constitutional Development (DOJ& CD), briefed Members on the the Peace and Stability Cluster’s implementation of the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs). The presentation indicated the linkage between the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security Cluster (JCPS)'s Delivery Agreement and the Millennium Developmental Goals (MDGs), and the review  of the progress made in ensuring that people were and felt safe (JCPS Delivery Agreement: Outcome 3) as part of the implementation of the MDGs. The Eight Millennium Development Goals had to ensure the eradication of extreme poverty and hunger; the achievement of universal primary education; the promotion of gender equality and empowering of women; the reduction of child mortality; improvement of maternal health; the combat of HIV/AIDS, malaria and other diseases; ensuring environmental sustainability; and the development of a global partnership for development.

The Medium Term Strategic Framework (MTSF 2009/14) was a statement of Government intent. It identified the development challenges facing South Africa and outlined the medium-term strategy for improving living conditions of South Africans. The Government had integrated the Eight MDGs into its MTSF 2009/14, translating firstly the Five Priorities of the ruling party into Ten Strategic Priorities for Government.  Those Priorities had now been translated into 12 Outcomes. Those 12 Outcomes indicated the main strategic focus areas, but did not cover the whole of Government’s or the JCPS’s work and activities. It also did not mean that the other work of Government or the JCPS Cluster that was not directly related to the Outcomes or the MDG was neglected. The coordination of the MDGs had been assigned by Government to Statistics South Africa (Stats SA) which coordinated inputs from Government Departments and Civil Society Organizations on the implementation of MDGs. Stats SA had assigned specific departments to coordinate information on certain MDGs. The 2010 Country Report on the implementation of the MDGs contained detail on the progress South Africa (SA) had made in this regard.  This briefing would therefore focus more on the activities of the JCPS Cluster in particular. The JCPS Cluster’s Programme of Action and Delivery Agreement was focused on Outcome 3:  “All People in South Africa are and feel safe”.  The JCPS Cluster contributed to all eight MDGs through facilitating access to justice, but in particular towards the realization of, amongst others, the eradication of extreme poverty and hunger; the promotion of gender equality and empowerment of women; ensuring environmental sustainability; and the development of a global partnership for development.

It should be noted that the JCPS Cluster Departments dealt with their mandate pertaining to Outcome 3 in such a way that it also addressed the implementation of the MDGs in general. There were, however, some activities that ran across Clusters as well as across all the MDGs. In the case of South Africa, the justice system had to contend with the fact that many poor people, in particular those living in townships, rural areas and informal settlements, were often trapped in prolonged periods of unemployment. They were more exposed to human rights abuses, and were more likely to experience and be affected by high levels of crime. All those factors impacted severely on the quality of their lives, and in many cases tend to push these people even deeper into poverty. Criminality and violence often resulted in the loss of scarce resources, hospitalisation and/or loss of productivity, which, in turn, could easily result in significant repercussions for those who relied on the victims for support. Thus, a functioning justice system constituted an important foundation for the Department on which to build a prosperous, stable society, based on just and democratic principles.

The Department had drafted maintenance guidelines for the judiciary and provided training to maintenance investigators and maintenance officers. The DOJ&CD finalised the Maintenance Integrated Case Management System (ICMS) during the past year. The ICMS was piloted from September 2010, in the Magistrates’ Courts of Pretoria and Port Elizabeth. The system would facilitate the tracking of the cases from application to finalisation and would be rolled-out during the following financial year.

South Africa had committed itself constitutionally to eliminate all forms of discrimination and to building a more equal society. Gender and violence against women and children were cross-cutting and deserved attention and inclusion in all eight goals. Pursuant to the provisions for section 9 (4) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, the Promotion of Equality and the Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act, 2000 (Act No. 4 of 2000) was enacted and came into operation in September 2000. The Act further provided for the designation of equality courts. The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development had so far designated a large number of courts as equality courts.  It was the Department’s intention that equality court services should be available at all courts throughout the country. This would be achieved through the training of Presiding Officers and Clerks of the equality court as well as their appointment in terms of the Equality Act. This would solve the problem of the most vulnerable groups, travelling long distances to lodge complaints in the equality courts.  During 2010/2011, the Department designated all magistrate’s courts as equality courts. This had improved access to equality courts as the public could now lodge complaints of unfair discrimination at the magistrate’s court nearest to their community.  There was a need to educate the public on this and the DoJ&CD Communication Strategy sought to do just that.

One of the main functions of the Cluster and the Department was to expand justice and improve access to justice services. In doing so, special focus was given to people living in townships and rural areas who, owing to the historical inequalities in the distribution of courts and justice services, had very limited access to courts. The objective was to build new courts in townships and rural areas, to augment identified infrastructure shortages with mobile courts, to expand services in the existing courts, to improve the quality of services provided, and to redefine magisterial jurisdictions and align them with the new municipality boundaries. The JCPS Cluster, and the DOJ &CD in particular, was addressing the National Strategy for the Reduction of Gender-based Offences inter-sectorally, through four draft policy documents and related co-ordination of JCPS Cluster-implementation. In line with the JCPS Cluster’s zero tolerance approach to crime, in 2011 the JCPS Cluster would prioritise tackling crime relating to inner city decay issues such as prostitution, drug dealing and infractions of municipal by-laws.

The JCPS Cluster was focusing on law enforcement activities that would assist in ensuring environmental sustainability. Examples were focused attention by the JCPS Cluster related to the clamping down on, amongst others, the poaching of rhino (for rhino horn) and abalone; illegal mining, and environmental law enforcement. The pre-eminence, stature and commitment of South Africa to global peace and well-being were well established and was appropriately captured in its priority area 'Create a better South Africa and contribute to a better and safer Africa and World'. This was an unambiguous expression and an explicit commitment to how South Africa would contribute to global partnerships. South Africa, in partnership with African leaders, adopted the New Partnership for Africa's Development (NEPAD) as a vehicle for Africa’s renewal, and the evidence for driving the agenda with Africa and on behalf of Africa was carried in our memories of a grandiose and successful 2010 FIFA World Cup that South Africa held during 2010. Further evidence was found in the major role South Africa had played and continued to play in peace building and peacekeeping missions, specifically in Africa.  South Africa had also assisted with the monitoring of elections in the region and on the Continent.

Outcome 3 stating:  “All people in South Africa were and felt safe,” was the focus area as contained in the JCPS Delivery Agreement, signed in October 2010, and comprise of eight outputs. Outcome 1 focused on reducing overall levels of serious crime in particular contact and trio crimes, while Outcome 2 had to do with an effective Criminal Justice System. Outcome 3 ensured that corruption within the JCPS Cluster was combated to ensure its effectiveness and its ability to serve as deterrent against crime, and Outcome 4 emphasised that perceptions on the management of crime among the population improved. The levels of corruption had to be reduced as stipulated in Outcome 5, thus improving investor perception, trust and willingness to invest in South Africa, and South Africa’s borders had to be effectively safe guarded and secured as outlined in Outcome 6. Outcome 7 elaborated on the integrity of identity and status of citizens and residents secured, while Outcome 8 focused on the information and communications technology (ICT) systems to be integrated and cyber crime to be combated.  One of the areas that required the attention of the Cluster was opportunities for meaningful and targeted job creation. There was a current challenge that the court reporting systems as well as those of the police did not distinguish the cases of women and therefore there was a need to improve the systems to achieve this outcome.

Discussion
Mr Williams referred to slide 27 of the presentation and asked about the various delays in the ICT systems. He also asked if the State Information Technology Agency (SITA) was assisting and whether it was effective.

Ms Dreyer asked about the meaning of “trio crime levels.”

Ms M Mohale (ANC) asked how “victim friendly” courts and police stations were measured. She asked if the entity had a system in place to monitor the payment of child maintenance by parents.

Mr Suka said that the presentation was very informative but highlighted that the country as a whole should be surveyed. He mentioned that the tendency was to focus on the urban and small towns and rural areas were neglected.

Ms J Maluleka (ANC) asked what the plans were to address the backlog in terms of the foster care grant in courts.

Mr L Ramatlakane (COPE) asked if there was a system in place to track down defaulters on maintenance payment.

Ms M Mohale (ANC) asked whether there was a stage where parents could stop paying maintenance for their children.

Ms D Boshigo (ANC) asked how the Department was dealing with the issue of “ukutwala.”

The Director-General responded that SITA was going through its own transformation systems. The Cluster did meet with SITA to develop a new programme for its various systems and the Cluster just needed to develop a better partnership with the entity. She said that “trio crimes” were non-contact crimes like house breaking, bank robberies and high-jacking. Victim friendly facilities were aimed at someone who suffered injustice. The Department provided specific facilities where victims had been dealt with in private and not in public when their cases were being addressed. There was a maintenance system in place and it was mainly done electronically, but few areas did it manually. The system worked very well but not always and it was applied at the same rate across the country. The Department ensured that more maintenance officers and Investigators were trained. The system of payment by both parents was dealt with as one case even though it involved both parents. Cases were treated as a single case as long as the parents were still together. The Home Affairs system was used to tracked down the identity of the child in order to avoid fraud, scams and corruption, or where children were used to get money. The Director-General agreed that the reporting systems were not working that well in small towns and rural areas but she highlighted that the Cluster operated better in small towns than in cities. The Foster Care Grant needed a speedily review by the Department of Social Development and the Judiciary to address the backlog. The system of tracking defaulters was not working that well at this stage and the Department needed to look at how its capacity could be strengthened on the issue. The issue of “ukutwala” had been addressed and the Department wanted to emphasise that it was a criminal offence.  The Department viewed the issue as non-consensual sex.

Mr Williams asked what needed to be done to address the challenges as highlighted in the presentation.

Mr Ramatlakane asked why the Crime Prevention System was not finalised.

The Director-General responded that it was a challenge having a proper and efficient system in place because many of the systems still captured information in the old ways. There was a system for maintenance payment but the tracking was not that well to monitor whether parents paid regularly.

Mr Vusi Madonsela, Director-General, Department of Social Development, said the Social Crime Prevention Strategy (SCPS) was no longer under the Social Development Department. The document was there but needed to be endorsed and implemented. The SCPS should exist as stand alone or within the JCPS.

Social Development and Transformation Cluster’s Millennium Development Goals Country Report 2010
Mr Madonsela presented the Social Development and Transformation Cluster Millennium Development Goals. The presentation outlined the background, introduction and challenges, and the MDG results for the Social Sector. In September 2000, the world’s leaders signed the Millennium Declaration at the Millennium Summit. The Millennium Declaration promoted basic human rights such as the right to education, health, water, security, and shelter. Although the Social Sector Departments covered a wide spectrum of issues, some of their work could not be measured by the indicators -both domestic and international- developed for the MDGs. This included critical work done by for example, the Department of Social Development on Early Childhood Development (ECD). The report might at times have not presented a comprehensive coverage of the social sector’s contribution to the achievement of MDGs but all information submitted to for the compilation of the report had to be subjected to stringent quality assurance by Stats SA processes, and, as a result, some of the information submitted by various sources was not included in the report. Regarding the reduction of poverty, the proportion of population living below the poverty line had declined but the Gini coefficient (measure of inequality) remained high. The employment to population ratio remained static while access to free basic services by indigents was on the increase. The Social assistance programme, led by the Department of Social Development had, made a significant contribution to the attainment of Goal 1 and studies on South Africa’s social assistance programme suggested that social grants reinforced developmental impacts within households in terms of nutrition, education, health, vital services and employment.

The objective of Goal 2 was to achieve universal education and the Adjusted Net Enrolment for females had increased from 97.0% in 2002 to 98.8% in 2009. The functional literacy rate of 15 to 24 year olds increased from 88% in 2002 to 91% in 2009. The completion rate of primary education by those aged 18 had risen from 89.6% in 2002 to 93.8% in 2009. It appeared that the South African Government initiatives of no fees, free transport and feeding schemes in selected schools had benefited poor learners.  South Africa had made significant progress in meeting the goal of promoting gender equality and would most likely meet all the key targets for this goal. The entity noted that there were more girls than boys in both secondary and tertiary institutions and the women share on non-agricultural wage employment remained below half. The proportion of seats held by women in the national assembly increased from 25% in 1994 to 44 % in 2009. Women constituted 67% of recipients of the Old Age and Disability Grants, which were 2.4 million women. The Old Age Grant also served as surety with which people were able to leverage further financial and social resources and the Department wanted to emphasise that care givers made up 98 % of the recipients of the Child Support Grant.

The mortality rate remained stable at 53 (2007) deaths per 1 000 live births and under-five mortality rate had risen from 59 (1998) to 104 (2007) per 1000 live births. The proportion of 1-year old children immunised against measles had risen from 68.5 (2001) to 98.3 (2009) and the life expectancy at birth had dropped. The Department acknowledged that the Maternal Mortality rate was high and increasing. The proportion of births attended by skilled health personnel increased from 76.6% (684 766) in 2001 to 94.3% (935 473) in 2009. The use of modern contraceptive methods by sexually active women had increased from 61.2% (1998) to 64% (2003). The antenatal care coverage had increased from 76.6% (2001) to above 100%. The Department noted that the Maternal Mortality rate was high and was increasing. The proportion of births attended by skilled health personnel increased from 76.6% (684 766) in 2001 to 94.3% (935 473) in 2009. The use of modern contraceptive methods by sexually active women had increased from 61.2% (1998) to 64% (2003) and the antenatal care coverage had increased from 76.6 (2001) to above 100%. The spread of HIV prevalence in South Africa might have stabilised. In 2006 17% of men had been tested and in 2009 the figure had risen to 31.8%. Amongst women the figure rose from 38% in 2006 to 71.2% in 2009. The death rates associated with TB had risen from 168 per 100 000 population (in 2004) to 181 (in 2007) per 100 000 population. The evidence suggested that the spread of HIV prevalence in South Africa might have stabilised and had declined among the 15-24 age cohort since 2005.

The spread of HIV prevalence in South Africa might have stabilised, and there was a marked increase in all provinces from 2005 (13.9%) to 2009 (41.6%) in the proportion of people with HIV who had access to antiretroviral therapy (ART). The number of species threatened with extinction had increased from 676 (1990) to 2 458 (2010). Carbon dioxide emissions had increased from 358 930 Gigagrams in 1994 to 433 527 Gigagrams in 2007. The proportion of population living in slums had remained static and the target for the proportion of population using water from an improved drinking source had been achieved.

Discussion
Mr Williams noted a decline in HIV Prevalence Among Population Aged 15-24 Years between 2005 and 2008 and asked if the decline was caused by deaths.

Ms Dreyer found it very distressing to see that child mortality went up significantly and life expectancy of women went down. She noted that the DG indicated that it might be subscribed to AIDS but maternity death was also very distressing.

Dr H Van Schalkwyk (DA) regarded the child support grant as very important and asked if there was a system in place to monitor whether the grant was used for its intended purpose.

Ms J Maluleke (ANC) applauded the cluster that not only women were beneficiaries of the ECD. She noted an increase of women in the National Assembly and thanked the African National Congress (ANC) for advancing women empowerment.

Mr Suka said that provinces should play their part in promoting gender equality because it seemed as if the Western Province was falling behind. He was excited by the Social Development Grant but mentioned that it would not be sustainable on the long run. He would like to hear the statistics from the census to verify the credibility of the information presented in the presentation. The report must be adapted in order to speak to the people of the country, especially on the issue of measuring by dollars, because this was a public document. It was a serious problem to see that the employment population ratio remained static because job creation should be a priority in all spheres of Government.

Mr Williams said that the poverty might be worse in 2011 because of the high unemployment rate. The report already indicated that there was an increase in poverty from 2005 to 2009. Many people lost their jobs during the recession and it should be noted that there was a direct correlation between unemployment and poverty. The country might be doing well quantitatively regarding education, but the scenario looked very different qualitatively because the state of education was shocking and alarming. Rural and urban inequalities were a serious problem and extreme poverty mainly affected women from rural areas.

Ms M Mohale (ANC) mentioned that she came from the rural areas and many foreigners were working in those areas. She asked if illegal immigrants were considered when statistics were compiled.

 Mr Madonsela said that he would like the Director-General, Stats SA, to respond to the statistics-related questions.

The Director-General, Stats SA indicated that there was a direct correlation between Goals 4, 5 and 6 because the numbers were moving in the same direction. There must be truth in the numbers. The reality was that the number of deaths in child mortality was increasing and those numbers could not be changed or shifted. There was a pattern, level and trend that needed to be followed.  Child mortality deaths were measured by provinces and some provinces had a high rate while the trend was low in other provinces.  The various methods that were followed generated the numbers as indicated in the presentation. The issue of child mortality might not necessarily be an issue of health services because maternity was about care at giving birth. It was important to note the health status of a woman in the prenatal stage before she gave birth.

The dollar was used as measurement in the report because it was the dominant currency and was used internationally.  The reason why women were not getting the same payment was due to unfair labour practices and discrimination against women. The education system was a very complex issue because South Africa had a very low mathematics literacy rate which posed a serious challenge to the country. Many students were avoiding Mathematics and many parents did not encourage their children to do Mathematics, especially when they were doing badly in the subject. He said that two streams of Mathematics would be killing the education process. Quantifying statistics was a complicated issue because of the processes that needed to be flowed.

Mr Wiseman Magasela, Deputy Director-General, Department of Social Development, stated that the child mortality also had to do with the nutritional status of women. He said that 98% of the social grant was paid to women, and statistics indicated that grants paid to women always yielded positive results and had a positive impact on the whole family. The child support grant was not a magic bullet to remove children from poverty but all research indicated the positive effects of the grant.

The Hon. Thembelani Nxesi, Deputy Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform, said that the statistics only gave pointers on the reality. The issue of rural development was a sensitive issue that required the involvement of all Government Departments. The people who never tasted political freedom were farmers because their basic Human Rights had being neglected and that was why the issue of rural development needed serious attention. The statistics only gave pointers bur serious policy formation was needed to address issues.

The Director-General, Stats SA, said that the study on migration indicated a movement from rural areas to urban areas. He was not sure whether rural development would be the answer to minimize migration. The answer might be in striking a balance between rural and urban development.

The Chairperson was very happy with the interaction and stated that the issues highlighted needed more engagement.

The meeting was adjourned.