The Department of Police (SAPS) presented its strategic plan, budget and operational plans for 2011, focusing on Programme 1: Administration. The Chairperson commented that SAPS seemed to be achieving some successes, as noted by dropping crime rates, but asked that it focus on the challenges rather than successes. The relevant portions of the State of the Nation Address, as they related to this department, were quoted, and it was noted that SAPS had increased visible policing and patrols in identified hotspots. SAPS would focus on crime prevention, particularly reducing crimes against women and children, and improving police response. It would further address substance abuse as a contributing factor to the violent nature of crime, increase its visibility, crime perception management, it efforts to combat corruption and investigation of crime, and would provide support to the Cluster by providing actionable crime intelligence, human capital development and the enhanced information systems and ICT. The Administration Programme aimed to develop policy for the Department and provide centralised support services. The targets were set out. It was planned that total enlistment over the period should be around 22 000 new appointments over the medium term. Quality would be emphasised, with a revision of recruitment strategy, a community based approach, increased stipends and vetting. SAPS sought to keep its workforce levels at 98%. All members must comply with the Department of Public Service and Administration prescripts. The training plans were outlined. The supply chain management issues were also outlined, including dot peen marking of firearms, firearms audits, improved data integrity of the asset register, clear guidelines for inspections, and bullet proof vest marking. New strategies were in place for vehicles and garages, and there would be training of artisans. Another short presentation was given on technology management services, aimed at improving information flow across departments. Finally, SAPS described the monitoring and evaluation initiatives, which aimed to achieve service delivery, identify fraud and corruption and minimise civil claims and improve data integrity.
Members were not entirely happy with the presentation, some pointing out that the information presented was very similar to the previous year’s and it appeared that the strategic plan may not have been updated and checked. They also noted that targets presented were not carried across to the Annual Performance Plan, which made it very difficult to correlate the documents, and further were critical of the fact that SAPS did not appear to be following up on issues that the Committee had identified in its oversight visits. Members questioned the TETRA project and the PCEM project at length, as well as the vehicles policy and practice, the payment of invoices, how much Annual Police Day had cost, and under which programme it was funded, commented that SAPS handling of pensions was “chaotic”. A Member was extremely critical of the way in which reservists were treated, commenting that the SAPS asked for help from citizens, and then turned it down, and this sparked a strong response from SAPS that there was a general failure to understand the system, and that SAPS was reluctant to apply a take-one-take-all policy, although those who qualified could be taken in. Members spent considerable time questioning figures for training, the courses offered, how the training was monitored, and the security of the exam papers and system of marking. They further questioned the figures around completion of police stations, when these would be occupied, how they were prioritised. Members were also interested in details of the Board of Inquiry. Members also queried the contribution to the Criminal Justice System projects. In relation to personnel, they questioned what was contained in the management budget and overexpenditure under this sub-programme, and retirement issues. Members also questioned the statistics around firearms, particularly the purchase of new firearms, rental being paid for buildings, and the PCEM procurement processes. Members were critical of Gen Cele’s response that he did not know what had happened to the Special Investigating Unit’s investigation into the SAPS supply unit. The Committee also placed significant emphasis on questions around contracting and subcontracting for the building of stations. Finally, the Committee urged that the SAPS must read and respond to issues raised in the Committee’s oversight reports.
Chairperson's Opening Remarks
The Chairperson noted the apologies. She urged that Members in the same party as a Member who had never attended a single meeting should take this up with the absent Member.
The Chairperson noted that the Committee would be focusing on the strategic plan (SP), Annual Performance Plan (APP) and the budget for 2011/12, for the Department of Police (the Department or SAPS). It would specifically concentrate on the Administrative Programme and certain changes to this Programme.
The Chairperson noted that the core function of the South African Police Service (SAPS) was to fight crime but the question was whether SAPS was indeed fighting crime. It seemed that it was, from statistics produced last year showing a decrease in the crime rates, as also the successful hosting of the 2010 Soccer World Cup. There were concerns about crime, because criminals were directly in opposition to any achievements of the country, so everyone had to play their role to sustain and improve what they achieved.
The Chairperson asked that the SAPS should not focus on their successes, but rather on the challenges or shortcomings they faced. The Minister had raised a number of issues for focused attention, such as addressing crimes against the most vulnerable, human resources development from recruitment to retirement, arresting criminals and securing convictions, strengthening detectives and securing firearms. The Committee would allow the Department to make presentations and Members would raise questions and shortcomings. She also requested that the Department must read the reports that the Committee compiled after it had visited institutions, so it was able to attend to issues raised in those reports.
South African Police Service / Department of Police: Strategic Plan and budget 2011
General Bheki Cele, National Commissioner, South African Police Services, agreed that crime did sometimes result in a reversal of gains, as mentioned by the Chairperson. A massive operation was under way in the Eastern Cape. Members of a certain police station had attended at the scene of an accident, but while doing so, the police station was raided and some arms were stolen. The person responsible was a notorious criminal who had escaped from the Department of Correctional Services, so a massive manhunt was underway. He agreed with the Chairperson that criminals would constantly plan how they could benefit from any situation.
General Cele noted that the strategic direction was informed by the State of the Nation Address (SONA) and this had required that the country "continue to improve capacity and effectiveness of the police, in particular the detective services, forensic analysts and crime intelligence”. He noted that the SAPS had increased visible policing and patrols in identified hotspots. The strategic direction was further informed by the speech given by the Minister on Finance, in which he had referred to increases in police personnel. and upgrade of information technology, as well as other components of the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security (JCPS) Cluster. The SAPS would focus on crime prevention, with a focus on the reduction of crimes against women and children, and improving police response. It would further address substance abuse as a contributing factor to the violent nature of crime, increase its visibility, crime perception management, it efforts to combat corruption and investigation of crime. It would also provide support to the investigation of the crime by providing actionable crime intelligence, human capital development and the enhanced information system and ICT.
Gen Stefan Schutte, Financial and Administration Services, South African Police Services, presented on Programme 1: Administration. He said that the purpose of the programme was to develop policy for the Department, including providing administrative support, and its strategic objective was to regulate the overall management of the Department and provide centralised support services. SAPS sought to maintain a target at 98% of posts filled. In addition it sought to maintain the target of having 88% learners declared competent upon the completion of their training in terms of the Training Provision Plan (TPP). With regards to the percentage of capital investment, asset management and maintenance plan completed, the SAPS targeted that 100% of firearms be dot peen marked. It also sought to maintain a ratio of 4.51personnel to each vehicle. A new indicator was now included, for provision of basic services at police stations. The SAPS also sought to have 90% of capacity projects completed. Gen Schutte noted that there was no specific baseline for the 2009/10 performance in the area of sustainability and implementation of systems both in SAPS and between systems, but a target was set for 2011/12, that 70% of IS/ICT projects should be completed. Additions to the previous MTEF cycle were given as well as compensation budget and categories of expenditure.
Lieutenant General Nkuruman Mazibuko, Divisional Manager Human Resources Development, South African Police Services, spoke about the personnel management under programme 1. From 2002/3 to 2010/11, 76 310 additional personnel had been appointed, as well as filling 38 000 replacements. The appointment of new enlistments over the medium term period was planned, which should total about 22 000 people. Growth from 2002/3 up until 2013/14 was anticipated to reflect 83 260 new personnel and 53 000 replacements. In relation to quality emphasis, there would be a revision of recruitment strategy, a community based approach that would include consultation with community structures such as schools, religious bodies and community policing forums. There would also be increased stipends for entry level constables from R1 600 per month to R3 175 per month, to attract and retain better quality applicants. Vetting by crime intelligence and reference checks would be conducted.
Brigadier Griesel, Human Resources, South African Police Service, addressed the issue of human resource utilization. SAPS sought to maintain a workforce of 98% in terms of the approved establishment. It would capacitate specialised environments in relation to human resources capacity, with preference being given to detectives, criminal records centre, forensic services and crime intelligence. Compliance would be enforced in terms of the Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA) prescripts, which were related to the finalisation of performance agreements by 30 May 2011. Non-complying senior managers would be excluded from salary increases, incentive processes and pay progression. Another focus of the year would be the entrenchment of procedures such as audits, to confirm compliance and adherence to performance management systems. The career path framework and career streams had in principle been refined by the Management Forum of the SAPS.
Lieutenant General Mbakela, South African Police Services, gave an overview of the SAPS training provision plan for 2011/12. There would be 6 807 courses and 152 137 trainees. Detective training was divided into two programmes. The first was the basic two week preparatory course, followed by a year-long course on resolving crime. There would also be management and leadership development programmes, and there was also international training support.
General Gary Kruser, Head: SAPS Training Division, South African Police Services, addressed the issues that related to supply chain management. He stated that there would be a firearms audit by certifying individual firearms bi-annually. There would be improved data integrity of the Asset register and clear guidelines for commanders to conduct inspections during morning parades. In relation to the marking of firearms, the SAPS would dot peen mark the firearms on specific areas of the firearm and if any of the marks were removed the SAPS would still be able to identify the firearms as SAPS firearms. Serial numbers, the SAPS logo and a barcode would be engraved. As at 14 March 2011, 162 630 firearms, out of 264 845, had been dot peen marked. The SAPS would also uniquely allocate a serial number to each bullet proof vest, to commence on 1 April 2011.
He noted that there would be optimal use made of the SAPS garages in regard to vehicles. SAPS had initiated a motor manufacturer dealership locator into its internal system in order to enhance service delivery. Artisan posts had been advertised nationally in order to address the shortage in capacity. SAPS would arrange, on a regular basis, for motor brands product training for artisans. The asset register would be enhanced and it would be continuously updated.
Lieutenant General Mzondeki Tshabalala, Head Information and Security Management, SAPS, gave a presentation on the technology management services. He outlined the work in the Integrated Justice System (IJS) programme, noting that SAPS would create and upgrade departmental system capacity in order to improve operational information flow. Thereafter there would be transversal integration between departmental systems. There would also be a Criminal Justice System (CJS) revamp. The issue of TETRA and SITA were also covered.
Lieutenant General M Rasegatla, National Inspectorate, South African Police Services, spoke about the inspections and evaluations. The purpose of these was to monitor and evaluate adherence to national policing policy, directives, norms and standards including the implementation of strategies of the SAPS. Focus would be on service delivery, risk areas for fraud and corruption, improving data integrity and minimizing civil claims.
Mr G Schneeman (ANC) noted that the Department had said that 70% of projects would be completed. He asked what the projects were, since such information would help the Committee in conducting their oversight.
Mr Schneeman thought that the problem of guarantees around TETRA should have been concluded when the tender was issued.
Mr Schneeman went on to ask how much money was going to be used on vehicles, how many vehicles would be purchased and where these vehicles were going to be sent. Mr Schneeman also asked whether service and maintenance plans were going to be continued with for some time and whether repairing vehicles at SAPS garages was the most cost effective way to go.
Ms D Kohler-Barnard (DA) asked how SAPS accounts were going unpaid. She added that this would lead to service providers not wanting to provide service to the SAPS.
Ms Kohler-Barnard asked under which programme the Annual Police Day was funded, and how much it had cost for the years 2011 and 2010.
Ms Kohler-Barnard said that SAPS showed a great deal of chaotic treatment of pensions. Over 2 000 pensioners waited for their money for up to two years, and some had even lost their houses. She asked why the SAPS penalised people who retired from the SAPS in this manner.
Ms Kohler-Barnard questioned under which programme police reservists were funded. Ms Kohler-Barnard was also concerned with the way reservists were being treated, in light of the many moratoriums that had been passed. She asked why the Department had asked for the citizens’ help and then turned it down.
Ms M Molebatsi (ANC) asked whether the figure for training was achievable. She asked whether bullet proof vests were user friendly. The Member asked what the status was of Heilbron police station. Lastly she asked Gen Tshabalala to repeat what he had said.
Mr M Swathe (DA) asked whether the Department had considered instructions from National Treasury when compiling its budget.
Mr Swathe asked how long it would take to open a police station after it had been completed. He asked when the SAPS would put permanent structures in place at police stations that had temporary structures, whether this would be done in this year, or whether it was in the next budget.
Mr Swath enquired if SAPS was going to change the recruitment strategy, how the new strategy would look, and how it would be implemented. Furthermore he asked whether the SAPS were going to do away with forms.
Mr V Ndlovu (IFP) asked for an explanation of paragraph 4 in slide 45.
Mr Ndlovu requested the names of the board members, whether they had started work and how often the met. In relation to slide 36, he asked whether they had been appointed.
Ms A Van Wyk (ANC) noted that the targets that were presented were not in the Annual Performance Plan, which was supposed to contain the targets, and this made oversight very difficult. She requested that the Department should draft one document that had all the targets.
Ms van Wyk noted that ten more police stations needed to be completed before the end of this financial year. She asked where the SAPS was on completing the police stations.
Ms Van Wyk asked what SAPS meant when it referred to firearms.
Ms van Wyk asked what system talked to the CJS and whether there had been progress. She questioned whether there was a backup.
Ms van Wyk asked what limiting factors had resulted in 90% of capacity projects being completed.
Ms van Wyk asked what was contained in the management budget. She noted that management had an expenditure of 101.3% at the end of December 2010, which was attributed to the huge number of retirement packages of senior officials who had retired. She also asked if any Section 35 notices had been issued during that period and, if so, how many.
Mr M George (COPE) stated that he was interested in the issue of police who had retired. He looked forward to getting a substantial answer on this point.
Mr George asked for clarity in relation to slide 5.
Mr George asked for an explanation around the figure of 100% firearms, in light of the fact that it had been said that the SAPS said that they would not be buying new firearms.
Mr George asked whether the rental allowance of R1.3 billion was for the national Department, or was a figure for the whole country, and asked also why SAPS was renting buildings, and what prevented SAPS from purchasing its own buildings.
Mr George asked how much the 6000 recruits cost, in rand terms, what the losses were, and what SAPS was doing to prevent it.
Mr George asked how much had been budgeted for police barracks and how much it would cost to buy bullet resistant vests as compared to what SAPS was currently paying.
Mr G Lekgetho (ANC) commended the establishment of the Board of Inquiry, which he said would curb the loss of firearms. He asked when the Board would begin to function. In relation to the Tactical Response Team he asked why there was no allocation for 2011/12.
The Chairperson asked what procedures were followed in the signing of a contract and who was supposed to be present when a contract was signed. She asked whether the PCEM procurement process was an open one and whether the products were ICT or non ICT products. If so, she wanted an explanation of the reasons.
The Chairperson asked what “value added items” were, and what the cost of these was. She asked whether the SAPS was paying for the purchasing and annual maintenance, and the cost.
The Chairperson asked, in regard to training, what was the average duration of the courses. She also asked whether SAPS inspected training institutions and whether these were aware of the SAPS firearms course, how the course would be evaluated, and the role that head office played.
The Chairperson asked how many reservists met the requirements.
The Chairperson enquired what would happen after the National Treasury had issued instructions in relation to the Annual Performance Plan.
The Chairperson questioned why the presentation said that there were 33 police stations that were being built, but the strategic plan said that there were 42. She asked what the SAPS meant when they referred to 90% completion, and whether this referred to the structure or of the total number of police stations.
General Cele responded that the question of pension was a question of welfare. Several things had been put in place in order to improve employee conditions, including the expansion of the Death Grant. General Cele stated that within three months a person should get everything that he or she was entitled to, but SAPS was not achieving that within three months. Lieutenant General Mazibuko had been instructed to correct the issues, but that there was no period of more than three months now.
Gen Cele said that the major problem of reservists was a failure to understand the concept. Reservists should not been seen as a way of joining the SAPS, at the expense of other new blood. If a person wanted to become a member of the SAPS he or she should apply accordingly. Reservists were not under the same policies and strict conditions as applied to the SAPS members, so they were “loose ends”. In addition, he stated that there were a number of requirements that could not be compromised, such as the issue of criminal records and psychometric tests, and that a large number of reservists failed to be accepted into the permanent forces. There would not be a take-one-take-all policy but those that were accepted would go through the normal training.
Gen Cele responded to questions on Heilbron, noting that this police station had now been officially opened by the Minister. He stressed that there were many stations that operated without being officially opened, and that there were people who worked at police stations that were not yet been fully built.
Gen Cele outlined the policy on recruitment strategy. Often SAPS was seen as an organisation that people joined when they had failed everywhere else, and this ideology had to change. The best people should be joining SAPS, and SAPS was supposed to be an organisation of excellence. A Recruitment Committee had been established, rather than having individual recruitment officers, and this Committee would be made up of personnel from national and provincial offices, and would rotate per province.
Gen Cele noted that the driver’s licence criterion had been put to an end. It was possible that some may even have bought the licences.
Gen Cele noted that the SAPS would ask for references from the schools of training.
The Chairperson elaborated on the issue of reservists. The question was how SAPS defined unemployment, which was a factor that prevented a person from joining the reservists. She agreed that there were a number of reservists who did not meet the criteria, but how many of them did meet the criteria.
The Chairperson asked how SAPS identified police stations that needed to be renovated, pointing out that some needed to have toilets.
Mr George asked why police stations that had been completed and opened had been listed.
Ms Kohler-Barnard stated that the vast number of reservists were not criminals, and they did not use their uniforms to rob people. She was quite strong on the point that SAPS should not be asking the citizens to assist it in the fight against crime, when it would reject the assistance when it was offered. She felt that the moves taken by SAPS in this regard were “bizarre and vindictive”.
General Cele responded that “That’s a lecture I do not need, and I am not going to take it". He went on to say that there were thousands of reservists who marched in Johannesburg, and had a shoot out with the police, and that they would not be taken into the police forces while he was in charge. The crisp issues must be understood. However, the suggestions of the Committee would be taken on board, and reservists who met the criteria could be accepted. He reiterated that there would not be a take-one-take-all policy. The SAPS would have to get proper figures with regards to the numbers.
Gen Cele responded, in regard to the police stations, that SAPS would need to redefine some matters.
Lt General Tshabalala responded to the question of inhibiting factors. He noted that these were external factors. He stated that State Information Technology Agency (SITA) had signed a contract in June 2010, during the World Cup, and this explained why some vendors were still on site. He added that the objective was to meet all of the targets in the technology environment but external factors had to be considered.
Lt General Tshabalala responded to the PCEM question by saying that PCEM was a big concern for the management, and this also included some other contracts. In 2007 the Forensic Laboratories had identified a crisis with drugs that were being stolen, and a stop gap solution was provided at an expense of R500 000.When SAPS tried to go further into this, it discovered that answers were only provided by the provider of the solution, who was a former SAPS member. There was therefore a need to deal with handling and recording exhibits. He stressed that the directors were not able to explain PCEM with absolute confidence. PCEM was a contract that was awarded in 2008 by SITA under Schedule D, with an aim of procuring technologies over and above IS and ICT. Schedule D was the easiest way to procure products, but it came with implications, including the levying of up to 30% handling fees. He stated that the value of PCEM was R183 million on paper but the figure did not include Schedule D products. The contract was published and awarded, but the winner had an unfair advantage. He stressed that it would be difficult to question the quality of the products that were being provided and it would be unfair to question the proposed solution. Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) procured AFIS for SAPS, after having received authorisation from the National Treasury, for the sum of R20 million, in 2009. 10 000 records were searched, with 3 000 being dedicated to the commercial and private searches, through banks and industries relating to pre-employment and qualifications. There were concerns that a search of 10 000 was insufficient. There were also concerns about lack of a disaster recovery system. To upgrade the searches to 15 000, SAPS had to pay an additional R400 million. The supplier might be taking advantage of SAPS because the only contract it had with the supplier was one for maintenance.
A decision was then taken to test the market. There were only three major suppliers of the product in the world. SAPS would try to have as many searches as possible per day. He stressed that a tender should be issued so that it was possible to test the market and look at who would come with what.
Lt General Tshabalala then answered the questions around TETRA. He said that when the contract was awarded, R180 million was paid, in 2009/10, to the company although it had not produced guarantees. At that point, TETRA was sold to someone else. SAPS decided not to pay until the requirements were met. Lt Gen Tshabalala said that the money was withheld by the Chief Financial Officer, so that SAPS only paid for the work that had been done between April 2010 and July/August, which was around R31 million. Costs for this project were escalating. He warned that a project of R900 million could easily escalate to around R1 billion, excluding variations. Lt Gen Tshabalala stressed that there was no integration between the SAPS system and other systems from its sister departments. The e-docket was not the responsibility of the SAPS alone, but the entire cluster was supposed to take responsibility. He stressed that the SAPS would turn the issues around.
The Chairperson asked what happened to the Special Investigating Unit (SIU) investigation of the SAPS supply unit, which had been announced by the President.
General Cele responded that he did not know what happened. He stated that he only knew that this had encountered problems.
The Chairperson asked what role the Hawks played.
Mr Anwa Dramat, Deputy National Commissioner, South African Police Service responded that investigations were being undertaken by the SIU, and that SIU would interact with the Hawks on any criminal aspects. Nothing had been reported to date.
Mr George stated that he was disappointed with the answers that had been given and did not find them acceptable. He stressed that the issues that were being investigated were police matters and the National Commissioner was supposed to have an interest in the matter, and for the Commissioner to say that he did not know the answers to some of the questions was unacceptable.
The Chairperson said that it was in the interests of the Committee to know whether the SIU was conducting an investigation. She added that she was not sure whether the Committee had received all the information on TETRA. She stressed that the Committee could set aside a day to discuss TETRA. The statement that the PCEM contractor had an unfair advantage was a “million dollar statement”. She questioned why the SAPS had signed the contract if it had reservations. She asked what the situation would be when a contract was signed. She was concerned about some of the matters.
Gen Kruser responded to the question on vehicles. He noted that the SAPS had to wait for a transversal contract, from National Treasury. Provinces had been asked to work on their needs. Service plans would be in place for all cars that the SAPS bought, and the SAPS had looked at the option of outsourcing.
Gen Kruser noted that a task team was testing bullet proof vests from other countries. The vests were not particularly user-friendly but they were safe, and SAPS would introduce lighter bullet proof vests.
Mr Kruser noted, on the issue of Heilbron police station, that it was around 60% complete and it would be completed in the ninth month of the year. In addition he stressed that SAPS expected police to move into police stations that had been completed as soon as possible, but that SAPS would establish guidelines.
In response to questions around the Board, Gen Kruser said that there were seven board members and they had started their work during the middle of March. These members met on a weekly basis and currently they were focusing on Gauteng Province. Appointments would take place on 1 April, but SAPS had already started the ground work.
Gen Kruser stated, in relation to firearms, that no firearms had been acquired for the year 2010/11, but that the SAPS would buy some firearms for the new recruits. He also added that the issue of the barracks was a huge challenge. SAPS was building more flats than barracks and was looking at how it could align the whole barracks issue to the government housing policy. In response to the questions on the 33 and 42 police stations, he said they SAPS did not want to claim an easy victory but the nine were built before the 2009/10 financial year, and not in the 2010/11 financial year, which was the reason why they had not been included.
The Chairperson stressed that it was not about claiming victories. The Committee and SAPS needed to talk about the Department and the documents that had been presented, for the purpose of putting the records straight.
In answer to the question on the percentage targets, Gen Kruser said that the 90% figure related to achieving 90% of the milestones per station.
Mr Kohler-Barnard stated that the Durban North Police station had began construction four years ago. She asked why the building had not been occupied, if it was 99% complete.
Gen Kruser responded that SAPS was trying to finish the police station by the end of this month, or, if this was not possible, then by next month. He pointed out that in terms of the project centre, the buildings were considered to be incomplete.
Mr Lekgetho asked whether the list of capital work projects was included in the list of the buildings that had been given. The Member also asked whether the police station that was said to be in the forest was included in the list, and, if it was not, then why not.
The Chairperson stressed that Committee would need a five year updated plan on capital projects since this would assist the Committee in monitoring the SAPS.
Mr Schneeman asked where the R1 billion figure for vehicles came from, and who decided on the amount. He asked whether the amount was based on actual needs. He questioned whether the outstanding projects were part of the new figures.
Gen Kruser responded that the money was calculated based on demand, and the SAPS decided what it should buy.
Mr George asked which firearms stock the SAPS was reducing, when it seemed that it was in actual fact buying firearms.
Ms Kohler-Barnard asked when the police station in Durban North would be completed. She asked how many police stations needed to be upgraded, and whether the SAPS had an end goal in sight. In addition she asked how many police stations lacked electricity generators and water.
Ms Van Wyk said that the way in which SAPS had reported did not follow the way in which the reporting was done in the past. This was not what the Committee had expected. The Committee needed clear guidelines on how SAPS reported. She noted that the answers received earlier on were the same answers that the Committee had received a year ago. The same station was described, in both years, as being 99% complete, and reference was made to lifts ordered. There was therefore the need for an updated 5 year plan, with a clear indication of the starting time and the expected date of completion. If there were any delays, then SAPS had to inform the Committee.
Gen Kruser responded that a tender had been awarded and lifts would be imported from Germany.
Ms Van Wyk stated that she was not referring to the October presentation, but to one even before that.
Gen Kruser responded that the Durban North police station would be completed in March or April 2011. He stated that, in terms of the project centre, SAPS had 68 projects ongoing, and it had tried to improve matters so that it was not working with one project.
Gen Kruser stated that he did not have any details about the police station in the forest.
Gen Kruser noted that there were sufficient stocks of firearms. He did not think that in general SAPS had surplus weapons but some stations may have surplus weapons.
Gen Kruser reported that 51 stations needed water, 14 stations needed electric generators and 85 stations needed help with sanitation. He also stated that 107 police stations would be upgraded.
General Cele responded that SAPS had looked at areas of update of the strategic plan and stations was one of them. He suggested that perhaps the best solution would be to report back to the Committee about the problems that were encountered. There was a need to find the middle ground between SAPS and the Department of Public Works, since DPW was not providing an all-encompassing solution to the construction problems. He added that there were several police stations that were not supposed to be at the stage that they were, and these issues needed to be sorted out.
The Chairperson stated that there was supposed to be a revised strategic plan. SAPS was supposed to be monitored on the basis of what was contained in its document.
The Chairperson asked what the benefits would be of moving to a subcontractor position, and whether they would be taking on major projects.
Gen Kruser responded that SAPS would go out on tender and appoint a main provider, with sub-contractors who were small or medium enterprises, to ensure that local people could be empowered.
The Chairperson asked whether SAPS would be in charge, rather than DPW.
Gen Kruser responded that SAPS would be in charge.
Ms Van Wyk noted that a lot of contractors were not following the law. She asked whether SAPS was continuing with those who had been appointed or whether SAPS had cleaned up the tender projects.
Gen Kruser responded that all processes went through the normal procurement process.
Ms Van Wyk clarified that she was asking about the ones that had been handed to the sub-contractors.
Gen Kruser responded that SAPS had acted to remove labour brokers, and where there were no providers, the projects were done building services.
The Chairperson stated that there was need to monitor all projects so that similar problems to the ones arising at the Department of Human Settlements did not become apparent.
Gen Kruser responded that the project managers were supposed to start on 1 April, but three had outstanding medical conditions.
The Chairperson asked whether, where there were large contractors involved, SAPS could specify how many sub-contractors there were likely to be.
Gen Kruser responded that SAPS would include the sub-contractors in the tender, so that there would not be the opportunity for any fronting.
Ms Kohler-Barnard asked about unpaid accounts, questioning also from which programme the Police Day had been funded.
A SAPS Lieutenant General responded on targets for training, indicated that the target of 152 000 was achievable. She stated that the duration of courses varied from three day training courses, which were basically skills programmes, to those that lasted weeks, months and eventually the full year. SAPS inspected academies. There were monitoring and evaluation teams, one of which was from the academy itself and the other was a national team.
The Chairperson asked what exactly happened when SAPS visited the academies to inspect them. It should be in the interests of SAPS to ensure that the standard of training was high. There were few training institutions when compared to police stations, so there was no reason that the SAPS could not inspect the institutions. In addition, she pointed out that there was a breakdown of the relationship between the staff and the management at Bishop Lavis training institution.
The Lieutenant General responded that there were internally-based tests that were prepared, known as formative assessments, but there were also summative assessments that came from a national assessment body. The formative assessment was an integral part of the training.
The Chairperson stressed that the issue was about the security of the papers. It was worrying if SAPS said that they visited the institutions. She urged that SAPS must read the report on the Committee's visit to the Philippi centre.
The Lieutenant General said that assessments were sent in sealed envelopes, with clear instructions from head office. These assessments were, in addition, supposed to be kept in a strong room. Monitoring and evaluation took place and there were people in the academies who were checking the quality of the training. She stated that the SAPS would improve on the situation.
Mr George stressed that the issue was about security and integrity. He asked who kept the papers when they arrived.
Ms Van Wyk also stressed that the Committee had concerns around the monitoring. She pointed out the example of a group of students who, in addition to receiving no documents from which to learn, were also handed the answers and were told to mark themselves. She asked how seriously the instructors were taking the monitoring. What she had described seemed to suggest a total disregard for discipline and authority, and if it was how people were trained, then the same attitude would filter down to police stations.
The Lieutenant General stressed that it would be ideal if SAPS could get the reports that the Committee had compiled when it had visited SAPS academies. She said that papers would be received by a training manager, who would lock them up in a strong room, and after the learners had written an exam the question papers would then be destroyed. She took note that the quality needed to be improved.
General Cele stated that there was a need to improve the security mechanism of the papers. He stressed that there was need to work also on the issues because many of the students were faced with societal problems.
Ms Van Wyk elaborated that this was the way in which the course was conducted, and it was the way that this particular instructor instructed his class.
The Lieutenant General responded that learners were supplied with learning material, and the writing of examinations at a central venue had been introduced. She stressed that SAPS had taken note of what had been said. She also agreed that amongst the instructors themselves there was a problem.
The Chairperson stated that this issue had been identified by two different Committees. She remarked upon the Lieutenant General’s assurances that she had now taken note of these issues and they would be addressed.
Gen Schutte responded on the housing queries. He said that R1.3 billion was paid to members for rental allowances and housing allowances. He then explained the spending for Programme: 1’s subprogramme for management. National Treasury figures showed that R55 million was spent, although the allocated amount was R54.3 million, so there had been overspending of R700 000. He pointed out that the Department’s management consisted of the Secretariat, National Commissioner, Deputy National Commissioners and Provincial Commissioners. The main reason for overspending was due to the discharge and pension benefits being paid, including leave, and one of them included the section 35 matters.
Ms Van Wyk elaborated that the main concern was not about over expenditure but about the spending in December.
Gen Schutte responded that the final figure would be provided at a later stage. He indicated that National Treasury regulations around the payment of accounts stated that a department should pay invoices 30 days after receipt, and on average the SAPS did pay within 30 days. However, there were some challenges.
Gen Schutte explained that Police Day expenses were reflected under Programme 1, but he did not have the full details around this, and there was a question with the Minister on this point.
Gen Schutte then indicated that the amounts indicated for the Tactical Response Team (TRT) were additional amounts and there was a current base line.
Ms Van Wyk asked where the budget for the TRT came from, and what was the amount to train and equip them was.
Gen Schutte responded that it was placed under Programme 2: Visible policing. Training and equipping the TRTs cost around R56 million, but it would decrease to R36 million because there would no longer be start-up costs in the following years.
The Chairperson asked how the money that had been allocated for CJS would be spent.
Gen Julius Phahlane, Divisional Commissioner: Criminal Record and Forensic Services, South African Police Services, added that SAPS would certainly spend this amount. By the end of the third quarter the expenditure was not where it was supposed to be, because the spending on this project had been reviewed. Once the review had been finalised, SAPS would proceed with the placement of the order. By the end of the financial year, whatever had been allocated would have been spent. One of the critical areas of CJS was to improve response and attendance to crime scenes, particularly for serious crimes and crimes against women and children, and this would ensure the successful investigation of cases. The money was used to employ additional personnel and to make sure that SAPS was well equipped and had proper training and proper vehicles.
The Chairperson stated that the Committee would compile a report, and stressed that SAPS must look at the report.
The meeting was adjourned.
- We don't have attendance info for this committee meeting
Download as PDF
You can download this page as a PDF using your browser's print functionality. Click on the "Print" button below and select the "PDF" option under destinations/printers.
See detailed instructions for your browser here.