Minister of Higher Education and Training on Progress Report in transferring skills development responsibility to the new department & transitional arrangements

Meeting report

Dr Blade Nzimande, Higher Education and Training (DHET) Minister, and Ms Mary Metcalfe, Higher Education and Training Director General, met with the Committee to give a briefing on transitional arrangements and skills transfer to the new Department.

The Director General told the Committee that establishing the new Department was complex and not going to be an easy task. It was formed through a split of Department of Education into Higher and Basic Education, plus it was incorporating the Skills Development function of the Department of Labour. The institutions and legislation, or parts thereof, now relevant to the new Department were outlined. Its responsibilities for the Sector Education and Training Authorities were spelt out. The administrative transition for the split and incorporation of skills development functions was 31 October 2009.


The administrative transition plan was explained and it included a physical resource audit, finance and budget audit, an information and communications technology audit, and labour relations matters.

Ms Metcalfe said that the process of allocating staff to the new departments was unlikely to be completed by the 31 October 2009. This was because staff members were still considering to which Department to go. Once staff members had decided which Department they would be in, it would be clear which positions were vacant. Functions were also going to be transferred from the Department of Labour to the Department.

At present the DHET had no budget, all of its activities were funded through the approval of DoE and DoL. The corporate service functions would remain with the relinquishing department of the DoE and DoL until end of 2009/2010 financial year.

The Skills Transition

The Minister would assume the legal mandate on 1 November. Urgent Issues before the Minister include:
– Appointing the chairperson for the National Skills Agency (NSA).
The NSA would need to be consulted with regard to:
• Publication of the restructured SETA landscape for stakeholder consultation.
• Approval of the publication of the National Skills Development Strategy (NSDS III) 2010 – 2015 for stakeholder consultation.
– Launching the Quality Council for Trades and Occupations (QCTO) and the appointing the Chair.

Immediate tasks for Minister would be

• Strengthening relationships with key stakeholders particularly, business and labour and collaboratively:
– Clarify overarching skills strategies so that structures and instruments are refined to serve strategy, and that the various components of the education and training system are coherently conceptualized
– Strengthen the NSA so that it can rigorously and vigorously perform its policy advisory role to the Minister, operate as  powerful source of strategy to complement the HRD Council  as well as establish the processes necessary to effectively monitor agencies and quality assurance processes

• With a re-invigorated and strengthened NSA:
– Reviewing NSDSIII so that it is a strategic instrument of the HRD  and its related social and economic developmental strategies
– Reviewing the recommendations on the SETA Landscape to ensure that SETA structures are:
• Based on a more precise understanding of the role of the SETAs and the priorities they should follow
• Reflect an appropriate segmentation of the economy that is aligned with emerging industrial strategies and the work of the Quality Council for Trades and Occupations
• Minimize capacity deficits at all levels, avoid duplication and maximize economies of scale
• Financially sustainable
• Build the public sector
• Informed by policy positions of government



The Strategy of the new Department of Higher Education and Training
Ms Metcalfe took the Committee through the priorities of their Medium Term Strategic Framework:

• Comprehensive rural development strategy:  Skills development

– Recapitalise agricultural training colleges to develop and run training programmes to support rural economies.
– Skills development and training services will be accessible to farm workers.
– Rural FET colleges will be strengthened and equipped to address a range of relevant rural development skills challenges.


• Strengthen the skills and human resource base
– Broaden access to post-secondary education and improve higher education throughput rate
• Deliver post-secondary education through a diverse mix of sites of learning and types
• Where appropriate, colleges for various professions will be established to address skills shortages
• Learners will be given the tools to make informed choices regarding education opportunities
• Financial need and the physical capacity of the post-secondary system must meet learner demand

• Higher education should skew resources to areas of study that will aid in addressing the skills shortages and ensure enrolment of the ablest of students irrespective of socio-economic background
• The transformation of higher education institutions will be intensified with a culture built on professionalism, innovation and personal accountability
• Efforts will be made to increase the proportion of students studying at postgraduate level
• A sustainable investment strategy will be developed

• The FET sector nationally (including  Agricultural Colleges) will be the primary site for skills development training.
• FET will play a significant role in providing second chance education for those who do not make it in the 12th year programme of education
•  FET colleges and SETAs will link with business, industry, and other s to involve employers/firms more meaningfully
• FET colleges to recruit and retain highly skilled and experienced instructors

• FET instructors to link classroom experiences with practical, workplace-based learning experiences.
• FET colleges to partner with other governmental agencies and civil society programmes that create and incubate small enterprises
• Government will ensure better coordination and integration of the relevant government departments and agencies responsible for skills development, including SOEs.

• Training and skills development initiatives in the country must respond to the requirements of the economy, rural development challenges and social integration.
– The main aim would be to increase the number of skilled personnel in the priority skills areas such as design, engineering and artisanship categories that are critical to manufacturing, construction, cultural activities and other priority economic sectors identified in the NIPF. 
– Additionally skills development programmes will be implemented, purposefully aimed at equipping the unemployed and vulnerable with requisite skills to overcome poverty and unemployment.

Discussion
The Chairperson opened the floor for questions, saying that the Committee agreed with Minister and the Director General on some of the strategic issues raised in the meeting on the Department’s strategy.

With regards to the issue of artisans, the Chairperson said that no province could really raise a specific figure on the number of artisans it would need, because demand was determined by growth in industry.

Dr Blade Nzimande, Higher Education and Training Minister, agreed with that, however he told the Committee that when he was appointed to the position of Minister of Higher Education and Training, he had been advised by a person - he wished not to mention - that he must not listen to what big business said and he should flood the market with artisans. This was because artisans could also start their own businesses, as long as they had the training they required.

Ms Mary Metcalfe, Higher Education and Training Director General, said that it was the Department’s duty to anticipate changes. There was a need to respond to shifts in the market. If one did not have skills that were responsive to the market then they would have problems. Policies had to guide how the demand process worked. If the country had an economic policy that focused on manufacturing, then the country would know that it would have to produce people who were going to meet the demands of such a policy.

Ms Metcalfe pointed out that FET Colleges were numerous and more geographically accessible. However it was important to see if they were responsive to local needs. The skills that they offered should meet the demand of industry. Rural FET colleges had to respond to rural needs without locking in those economies.

The Chairperson asked how would government start projects over the next two years that would ensure that the people at grassroots level felt the impact of such projects.

Mr W James (DA) said that it was important for the Committee to support the Department. There were fundamental things that Parliament had to do, and one of those things was to support strongly government departments.

Mr James wanted to know if the standard of education at FET colleges prepared students to do undergraduate programs at universities. This is because he had heard the previous week that the FET sector was not ready to get its students into universities. He believed that students had to be able to move from FET colleges into universities.

Mr Nzimande replied that the relationship between FET colleges and universities had not been driven centrally. There was a need to create a framework for the relationship. It was something that the Department wanted to do immediately.  The Department wanted to have a session with the quality assuror bodies such as Umalusi and Higher Education Quality Committee to discuss this matter. The Department also wanted to engage universities on why it was so difficult to produce black actuaries.

Ms Metcalfe said that FET colleges needed to form partnerships with universities to increase the intellectual strength of lecturers and students and universities had to come to the party in terms of establishing close relationships with FET colleges.

Ms N Vukuza (COPE) said that there was a need make higher education more professional. Many lecturers had no teaching qualifications. They merely had their Masters and Doctorates. Lecturers needed to become teachers. A teacher was most likely to produce citizens rather than a learner.

Mr Nzimande agreed with Ms Vukuza, academic support could not only be about students. There was a need to assist lecturers and it was an important issue. The Department had to enter into discussions with universities to see how they could improve teacher quality.

Furthermore, the Minister said that the issue institutional autonomy and academic freedom needed to be discussed. Universities were public institutions and had a responsibility to account publicly about what they did. They were behaving as if they were private institutions. Universities were sometimes behaving as if they did not have a public responsibility.

Ms Vukuza said that it was important to involve workers in the transitional process from the Department of Education to the Department of Higher Education and Training. Many of the workers needed to understand the implications of the transition on their careers. Many were not even sure if they would keep their positions.

Ms N Gina (ANC) asked if the Department anticipated any job losses during the transition.

Ms Metcalfe replied that employees had been sensitised about the process. No employee would lose rank during the transition. The Department was engaging trade unions on the matter. An employee would choose which of the two Departments to go to while still retaining the same duties and responsibilities.

Mr Nzimande added that the President had made it clear that government did not intend anyone to lose one’s job.

Ms Metcalfe said that with the Department of Education being split into two departments, there were very clear processes in labour relations matters. Unfortunately a person could not move from being a Director to being a Deputy Director General.

Ms Vukuza asked the Department how many stakeholders were involved in its business.

Mr A Mpontshane (IFP) said that it was still too early for the Committee to give a critical assessment of the new department as well as what had been discussed in the meeting. However, he wanted to know what the strategic relationship was between their Department and the Department of Basic Education, and what was the Department’s view of that relationship.  

Mr Nzimande replied that whilst there were two ministers, the country had one education system.  The departments also met monthly to discuss issues. There were also areas of overlap. There were many links between basic and higher education. Universities could and were doing a lot about basic education. Quoting someone, Mr Nzimande said that the foundation of education was higher education and not basic education.  In order to have schools there was a need to produce teachers and those teachers were produced in higher education.

Ms M Magazi (ANC) asked what the terms of reference for the policy statement would be and would the ANC members get the terms of reference.

Mr Nzimande said that the terms of reference were drafted so that everyone could comment on them. They were not only for ANC members. 

Ms Metcalfe told the Committee that the process had to be collective. The Committee could contribute towards the policy statement.

Mr G Radebe asked if the Department was going to establish universities in the provinces that had no universities. Many people were still migrating to other provinces to get education, and that was because of a lack of tertiary education institutions in their provinces. The President of the country had also said that there should be a tertiary institution in every province.

Ms Metcalfe replied that there were institutions of higher education in every province. Those institutions were building capacity to become organisers of learning opportunities.  It was also important to look at what would be the politically and economically important education institutions in Mpumalanga and Northern Cape.

Ms F Mushwana (ANC) said that even the current Act on education did not prescribe the number of higher education institutions each province had to have. Was the Department going to take five years to deal with the Act?

Mr S Makhubele (ANC) asked how the Department was planning to change people’s perceptions that for one to be educated, one had to go to university and many still viewed FET Colleges as being for the inferior or were inferior.

Ms C Dougley (ACDP) echoed Mr Makhubele’s question asking how the Department was going to manage the perception that people had about FET colleges.

Mr Nzimande said that as a Department they were going to be directly involved with FET colleges. Other colleges such as nursing colleges would be run directly by the relevant Departments.  The apartheid government in its last years neglected colleges. Even the ANC government did not do much to revitalise the institutions.  

Mr G Lekgetho (ANC) asked how the Department was maintaining communication with communities. Communities were also stakeholders in the education process. 

Ms Metcalfe replied that it was a very complex matter. What the public needed to know was that it had a Minister of Higher Education and Training. The Minister had to get the administrative arrangements in place. The difficulties faced by the Department should not be a public concern, the Department just had to deliver.

Mr Lekgetho said that people had approached him in his constituency in Mafikeng about a Sector Education and Training Authority that had invited people to apply for entry into its programme and had accepted 50 people. However the SETA had actually never trained those people after accepting them. 

Ms Metcalfe suggested that Mr Lekgetho write a letter to the Minister informing him of the problem. He could also request that the Committee invite the SETA so that questions on the matter could be raised.

The Chairperson said that it would be better to send a letter to the Minister, because it would take months to have a meeting with the SETA. 

He commented that as the Department and the Committee started implementing policy, obstacles were going to emerge. He then asked the Department to define those obstacles in order to realise the goals.

He thanked the Minister and his delegation for coming to Parliament.

The minutes of 2 September and 26 September 2009 were adopted with technical changes

Mr James told the Committee that he wanted a meeting or a discussion session in which the Committee could discuss the extension of 3-year degrees to 4-year degrees. He wanted to give a presentation to the Committee drawing on international models.

The Committee noted what Mr James had requested and the meeting was adjourned.