State Security: Minister's Budget Vote Speech & Responses by ANC, DA and IFP

Briefing

14 May 2013

Minister of State Security, Mr Siyabonga Cwele, gave his Budget Vote Speech on the 14 May 2013

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Today we table our Budget Vote Speech to Parliament, providing a high level policy direction in our pursuit to uphold national security as guided by the constitution. We continue to be resolute in our belief that working together we can builds a safer nation in a secure world.

President Jacob Zuma in his State of the Nation Address reminded the nation in general and intelligent services in particular, of the duty to protect our Constitution; The President affirmed people’s rights to protest and demonstrate peacefully but denounced acts of violence, intimidation and destruction of property and loss of life. He called on the security services to double their efforts and restore the authority of the state.

We have headed President’s call. The whole security cluster is increasing its capacity and focus on this scourge. We now have plan and are ready deploy the full capacity of the democratic state to identify, prevent or arrest and swiftly prosecute those who undermine our bill of rights by engaging in acts of violence. The ‘Eye of the Nation’ is watching.

We call upon all law abiding citizen to join us in a campaign of the restoration of the culture of Ubuntu and respect of human rights. Let us reiterate that as a nation we have a right to engage in peaceful and unarmed protest action but we must not allow criminality fear and intimidation to prevail.

The process of restructuring Civilian Intelligence Community into a single department, the State Security Agency has almost been finalised with the imminent passing of the enabling legislation in Parliament. We have achieved a number of noticeable milestones.

We now have finalised the new organisational structure and reconfigured line-functional areas in keeping a new business case. The intention is to develop well-oiled machinery that is able to deliver timely, accurate and relevant intelligence that supports the work of government in delivering a better life to all our people.

We continue to ensure the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the Republic.  We are moving away from an inadequate and fragmented model to a fully integrated model of managing our entire border environment. 

We have conclude the preparatory work and handed over to the Department of Home Affairs to lead the preparation of the proclamation for establishment of the BMA by 2014. Pending the establishment of the BMA, existing operational structures such as NATJOINTS and NATJOCS are being utilised to achieve integration and cooperation.

The process of developing a National Security Strategy is at an advanced stage. The SSA and the JCPS cluster have already covered a lot of ground in preparing the draft document and we hope to submit it for cabinet approval within the next three months. Thereafter it is critical to canvass inputs and buy-in by the South African public. We hope a parliament will drive this public consultation because we have to work together to secure our nation.

Global security remains stable but fragile due to pockets of conflicts in some regions of the world. One of the most noticeable trends since 2012 is the increase in the threat of terrorism in Africa. As a nation, we may not turn a blind eye on the evolving humanitarian crisis. The primary objective is to urgently restore security in order to allow inflows of humanitarian assistance and the economic reconstruction.

We are intensifying our effort of international collaboration in dealing to threats to global security such as terrorism, disasters and transnational crimes including internet crimes.

In this regard, last year we attended the third international meeting of “High Ranking Officials Responsible for Security Matters” in St Petersburg, Russia, and the first BRICS National Security Advisors’ (NSA) Ministerial meeting held in New Delhi, India in January 2013. The outcomes of these meetings helped us share experiences on common approach to addressing threats such as piracy, terrorism and cyber security.

As the current chair of the BRICS National Security Advisor’s forum, State Security is leading the process of hosting the next NSA meeting in South Africa later this year. The focus of the meeting will be on strengthening cooperation and finding broad consensus on security issues of mutual concern.

 

Theo Coetzee, Shadow Minister of State Security
 

Highlights:

·         The Minister has not tabled the budget of his office before the JSCI, since he became Minister of State Security

·         There appears to be a legislative trend towards the increased securitisation of the South African State Intelligence Services

·          DA to call on the Auditor-General to table a full report over the last five years, on the spending of all Secret Funds, within the Intelligence Domain


Mr Chairperson as we are all aware that Vote 10 on State Security is classified information, but I would like to take the opportunity to remind the Hon. Minister of paragraph 3(a) (iv) of the Intelligence Service Oversight Act 40 of 1994, as amended, which say amongst others that the Joint Standing Committee of Intelligence has an oversight function over the Minister of State Security, and that the Minister hasn’t tabled the budget of his office before the JSCI, since he became Minister of State Security.

At present there appears to be a legislative trend towards the increased securitisation of the South African State Intelligence Services. Securitisation is an extreme version of politicisation that enables the use of extraordinary means in the name of security.


The current White Paper was one of the first to appear under the new dispensation in the post-apartheid era. There was a strong policy orientation away from all structures which resembled apartheid systems in any way. This included the decentralisation of the State Intelligence Services and emphasised democratic principles and the centrality of the Constitution.


Mr Chairperson, in light of what I have just said, I would like to refer to a few unresolved serious matters that have happened since 2009 and in many cases still continue without any serious attempt by the Minister of State Security to stop or to resolved it.


Certainly one of the most sensational cases is the Mdluli saga. On the 3rd April 2011, City Press reported on the appointment of General Mdluli as Head of Crime Intelligence in July 2009 and I quote:
“Process of appointing Mdluli was hijacked by a panel of ministers (including the Minister of Police and State Security), because of the critical importance of the job, before he was appointed Mdluli would first presumably have been subjected to intense screening by intelligence officials”(end quote).


On the 15th April 2012, City Press reported, and I quote:
“Spy boss keeps it in the family. Several of Mdluli’s relatives were appointed to police cybercrime unit” (close quote)
Mr Chair and most of them if not all were promoted in a short space of time to higher ranks such as generals.


Just last week, Friday, the 10th May 2013, the Mail & Guardian reported under the heading “How top cops ‘plundered’ spy fund” and I quote:
“Charges against Richard Mdluli were dropped…Suspended crime intelligence boss Richard Mdluli and his unit’s chief finance officer, Solly Lazarus allegedly used the division’s secret service account as a piggy bank to splash out on trips to China and Mauritius.


The account is a covert fund used to finance undercover crime intelligence operations. Both Mdluli and Lazarus were suspended from Crime Intelligence in 2011 after allegations of fraud and corruption linked to the secret fund”.


The Minister of State Security said in his budget speech on 1st July 2009: and I quote:


“And we will unfailingly ensure that the power and public funds entrusted to us are used responsibly”


Then in response to this undertaking of the Minister in 2009, I challenged the Hon Minister last year during our budget debate, to call on the Auditor-General to table a full report over the last five years, on the spending of all Secret Funds, within the Intelligence Domain, to the JSCI. He has probably with due respect, for convenience sake forgot about the challenge, or was it on purpose?


Mnr die Voorsitter, die jaarliks Jaarverslag (Annual Report) en Ouditeursverslae is die enigste jaarliks kommunikasie tussen die JSCI en die publiek. Die uitstaande verslae spreek ek al vir die afgelope vier jaar aan, maar klaarblyklik ag niemand behalwe die Demokratiese Alliansie die verslae as belangrik, nie eers President Zuma nie, want die uitstaande jaarverslae lê iewers in sy kantoor as dit nie alreeds vernietig is nie.
Graag wens ek, Mnr die Voorsitter die Geagte Minister daarop te wys, soos ek reeds op 1 Julie 2009, gedoen het en ek haal aan:


“Wet 40 van 1994, bepaal dat die Gesamentlike Staande Komitee oor Intelligensie jaarliks ‘n verslag oor die werksaamhede van die komitee aan die Parlement moet voorlê. Die laaste beskikbare jaarverslag dateer terug na 2004/2005.”


Ek moet dit ook vir rekords doeleindes noem dat geen verslag voor 2004 gevind kan word nie. Verder nog moet die jaarverslag jaarliks voor of op 31 Mei, in die Parlement ter tafel gelê word. Wat egter Kommerwekkend is, is die feit dat vir die afgelope agt jaar, vanaf 2004 net vier jaarverslae ter tafel gelê, is, nl 2004/5 op 9 Mei 2007 (twee jaar laat), 2005/6 op 18 Oktober 2007, 2007/8 op 26 Mei 2010 en 2009/10 op 21 September 2011. Opmerklik is dat 2010/11 en 2011/12 nog by die Presedent is.

The vetting process remains an ongoing concern and the impression is created that the Minister of State Security is not concerned and that he does not have the political will to address the problem.
I would like, Mr Chairperson to remind the Hon Minister on his commitment in this regard and I would like to quote for him from his budget speech on 1st July 2009:


“We will continue to ensure the full implementation of all elements of our vetting strategy, which contributes to enabling government to expose and root out criminals from the Public Services. In particular, we will ensure that all those seeking employment are subject to appropriate screening prior to entry”.


If the Minister should allege that the situation has improved, then Gen. Mdluli must have known someone in a high position and still does.
Notwithstanding the fact that the Minister announced in October 2009, that the restructuring of the Intelligence Service will be one of his key priorities going forward, and that the Hon Minister will do it swiftly and without disruption, the process is still not complete.


It also seems as if the Guptas had a big influence or shall I rather say caused a disruption in the restructuring process.


The Daily News reported on the 6th May 2013, on “Spooks warned of Gupta influence” and I quote:


“A persistent question following the Gupta jet being allowed to land at Waterkloof Air Force Base is: How could this have happened? The answer is rooted in a debacle in the Department of State Security two years ago when the former intelligence heads tried to warn the government that the Gupta brothers posed a possible threat to national security. But their investigation was stymied, and as a result they lost their jobs. Therefore the phalanx of cabinet ministers and senior government officials claiming to be mystified about the security breach need to look no further than State Security Minister Siyabonga Cwele and President Jacob Zuma”.
The former heads which the Daily News referred to are Gibson Njenje, Moe Shaik and Jeff Maqetuka.


Daily News of the 6TH May 2013, further reported:
“Alarm bells started ringing in the intelligence agencies about the conduct and dealings of the Gupta brothers and Njenje ordered an investigation into the family’s inappropriate influence on South Africa’s top political leaders and government officials to amongst other  to buy government advertisements in their newspaper, The New Age, and how government should award contacts.


When Cwele learnt of this, he ordered that the investigation be stopped immediately. This soured relations between Cwele and the three DGs, which over the next few months deteriorated to the extent that the minister asked them to leave.


The security breach at the national key point, however, provoked alarm and an extraordinary reaction by government. The acting head of the Department of State Security, Dennis Dlomo, is among the high-powered team of top government officials tasked with investigation the Waterkloof landing.  Perhaps Dlomo’s task would be to come up with information other than what came up in the aborted investigation in 2011”.


A further concern for me is the non-functionality or even worst non-existence of the Secret Service Evaluation Committee and the Minister of State Security’s acceptance of the situation without doing something about it.


Jane Duncan of the South African Civil Society asked on the 23rd October 2011, How deep is the rot in South Africa’s Intelligence Service. She further said and I quote:

“South Africa has a sorry history of its intelligence services being abused for political ends.  In 1994, the country was promised that never again would those in power be in a position to misuse the state apparatus to spy on their political opponents”.


In conclusion Mr Chair, we need a Secret Service that is loyal to the public and its interests and that always acts to put the country’s needs ahead of the factional agenda of a particular element of the ruling party. We also need leaders who are beyond reproach, who are accountable and upstanding. If these requirements are not met, it will not only be our intelligence services that suffer as a result but the public’s faith in them. We need more transparency and less secrecy to make our constitutional democracy a success.

Dirk Stubbe, Shadow Minister of State Security
 

Highlights:
•    New legislation such as the Secrecy Bill and the Spy Bill to decrease transparency
•    Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence needs to take a more proactive oversight role with regards to State Security
•    Failure of intelligence operations and state security with regards to the Central African Republic, Guptagate and the alleged al-Qaeda operation reflect poorly on the readiness of our security services
.


Die einde van die vierde Parlement is in sig. Die afgelope jaar is veral ge-kenmerk deur nuwe wetgewing van toepassing op die intelligensiegemeenskap. Dit is egter duidelik dat die wetgewing ten doel het om bestaande wetgewing sodanig te reguleer, om sodoende deursigtigheid te beperk.


It is evident that new legislation is intended to regulate existing legislation to decrease transparency.


Dit is aanvaarbaar dat gebeure elders in die wêreld waar die veiligheid van ‘n staat en sy inwoners bedreig word, verskerpte sekerheidskontroles en optredes regverdig en dat hersiening in wetgewing voor die handliggend is.
In die Suid-Afrikaanse konteks is daar twee stuks wetgewing voorgestel wat doelbewus vrae laat ontstaan. Die “Protection of State Information Bill” met drakoniese voorstelle en veranderinge, asook die “General Intelligence Laws Amendment Bill” (GILAB) wat veronderstel was om, volgens die Minister, slegs tegniese veranderinge te weeg te bring.
As daar egter vanaf ‘n politieke oogpunt na laasgenoemde wetgewing gekyk word, blyk dit dat beginsels, soos vervat in die Witskrif oor Intelligensie van 1995, nie meer geld nie.  
 

Die Witskrif fokus op die tot standkoming van ‘n nuwe doktrine waar daar weg beweeg word van ‘n militere strategiese benadering na ‘n nuwe Burgerlike Diens (binnelands sowel as buitelands), en word daar slegs op ‘n indirekte wyse verwys na Militêre sowel as Kriminele Intelligensie. Die Witskrif verwys ook voorts na die definisie, doel en missie van sodanige Burgerlike Diens. Met verwysing na die samestelling van die intelligensiegemeenskap word daar soos volg aangehaal uit die Witskrif:
“…after the amalgamation of the various intelligence formations,  such arrangement will lead to the eventual establishment of two civilian intelligence agencies , one focusing on domestic intelligence and retaining the name National Intelligence Agency (NIA) and a service focusing on foreign intelligence, to be named the South African Secret Service (SASS)”.
 

The mission of the Domestic Intelligence Service NIA will be to conduct security intelligence within the borders of the Republic of South Africa in order to protect the Constitution. The overall aim shall be to ensure the security and stability of the State and the safety and well-being of its citizens.
 

The mission of the Foreign Intelligence Service SASS will be to conduct intelligence in relation to external threats, opportunities and other issues that may affect the Republic of South Africa, with the aim of promoting the national security and the interest of the country and its citizen.
 

The most significant departure from the old dispensation is that instead of one centralised national civilian intelligence organization, there will be two. This arrangement will not only ensure that the new intelligence dispensation in South Africa corresponds with general international trends, but will also promote greater focusing, effectiveness, professionalism and expertise in the specialised fields of domestic and foreign intelligence.”
 

In outlining the function, control and mandate of the new security services, the White Paper emphasises democratic principles and the centrality of the Constitution. Certain key principles are set out to ensure meaningful government control over the intelligence community:
•    The separation of intelligence functions;
•    Obliging agencies to operate in a legal capacity;
•    Controlling access to the executive; and
•    Differentiating the functions of collection, reporting, coordinating and review.
 

Essentially the White Paper clearly established a decentralised national intelligence structure.
 

A crucial element in the White Paper is also the emphasis on ensuring the non-partisanship of the intelligence agencies, specifying that:
“No intelligence or security service/organisation shall be allowed to carry out any operations or activities that are intended to undermine, promote or influence any South African political party or organisation at the expense of another by means of any acts…or means of disinformation.”
 

If we look at the evolution in the intelligence sphere prior to GILAB, it is interesting to note that every minister designated to assume political responsibility over the Intelligence Service sought amendments to the national legislation in order to further expand their authority over the intelligence services. Thus, being in line with the statement in the White Paper referring to the concept of international trends.
 

However except for reference in the Constitution towards a multi-party parliamentary committee that must have oversight, a body to co-ordinate intelligence and an Inspector, no additional bodies or role players are recognised. No mention is made either in the Constitution, or the White Paper towards the existence of entities such as the Academy, Comsec or the NCC. The said entities however exist but reside under the NIA.
With the introduction of the General Intelligence Laws Amendment Bill there is a definite shift from the prescriptions referred to in the White Paper.  
 

Wysigingswetsontwerp op Algemene Intelligensiewetgewing
Die nuwe Wysigingswetsontwerp op Algemene Intelligensiewetgewing ingevolge ‘n proklamasie deur die President in 2009 , het hoofsaaklik ten doel om die voormalige NIA , SASS en ander entiteite waaronder die Akademie, Comsec en die NCC saam te snoer  as die “State Security Agency” (SSA). Dit het tot gevolg dat wysigings aangebring is aan oa. Die Nasionale Strategiese Intelligensie Wet 1994, die Intelligensiedienste Oorsigwet 40 van 1994, as ook die Inteligensiedienste Wet 65 van 2002 terwyl die Elektroniese Kommunikasie Sekerheids (Pty)Ltd Wet 68 van 2002 in geheel opgeskort is.
 

“n Verdere uitvloeisel van die Wysigingswetsontwerp het tot gevolg dat daar dringend gekyk  moet word na die bepalings van die Intelligensie Oorsigwet 40 van 1994. Die “Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence” (JSCI), aangesien alle entiteite wat vroeër afsonderlik onderwerp was aan Parlementêre oorsig, nou opgeneem is in die SSA en die oorsigrol dus her gedefinieer moet word”.
 

Die JSCI se oorsigrol word verder bemoeilik omdat sperdatums vir sertifikate deur die Inspekteur Generaal, asook die Ouditeur- Generaal, nie betyds ontvang word nie en daar dus nie volledig verslag aan die Parlement gegee word nie.
 

Die Kantoor van die Minister se begroting is ook verskans in die begroting van die SSA wat dit ook onmoontlik maak om te bepaal of sy begroting oor of onderspandeer is.
 

Die uitsprake dat die instelling van die SSA ‘n wesentlike besparing op die begroting gaan meebring kan ook nie gemeet word nie vanwee die kompleksiteit van die een entiteit.  
 

Het die tyd nie aangebreek dat die modelle wat tans in gebruik is soos byvoorbeeld die samestelling van die JSCI teenoor ‘n staande kommitee , die bevoegdheid van die Inspekteur Generaal en die hele Oorsigwetgewing oordink moet word nie. Tans is die JSCI ingestel om re-aktief aandag te skenk aan probleme wat in die intelligensie gemeenskap ontstaan pleks daarvan om voorkennis te gebruik alvorens die probleem opduik.
 

Three issues that come to mind is firstly, the Gupta invasion of the Waterkloof Air Force Base with its status as a National Key Point. If this had happened elsewhere in the world, such an aircraft would have been shot down if no pre-flight clearance were given and there is ambiguity whether such clearance was given or not. This is a poor reflection on the readiness of our security services. In the second case, reports were raised that the international terrorist group al-Qaeda had been operating training bases under our noses without any intervention from our security establishment.

The third issue is the fact that intelligence information regarding the tragic deaths of South African troops in the Central African Republic was appalling. I can recall that two weeks ago during the voting debate on the Protection of State Information Bill , the Hon. Llewelyn Landers looked up to the gallery and proclaimed that spies are walking in the passages of Parliament. I just wonder if their presence here might perhaps be to gather prior knowledge and to act as an early warning system instead of trying to do damage control after an incident has occurred.


The Minister is no doubt aware that there has been speculation in the media which claims that the Minister intervened to stop an investigation by the SSA into the “undue influence” of the Gupta’s.  Will the Minister tell us whether this is true? A simple “yes” or “no” will do!


I thank you.

 

Speech By Hon Cecil Burgess during the National Assembly Budget Vote Debate on State Securities

14 May 2013

Chairperson
Hon. Minister of State Security
Hon. Ministers from the Security Cluster
Hon. Members
Members of the intelligence community
Inspector General of Intelligence (Ambassador, Adv.Radebe) and her Delegation
Acting-Director General of the State Security Agency: Mr. Dennis Dlomo and his Delegation
The Acting Head of the National Intelligence Co-ordinating Committee
The Chief of Defence Intelligence: General Nyembe
Judge Yvonne Mokgoro,
Former Directors and Deputy Directors General of Intelligence
Distinguished guests

We have present here today some of the most important people who work in our Constitutional intelligence environment. They attend this Budget Vote Debate as guests year after year. Why? Although this Budget Vote Debate relates to the Minister of State Security and the State Security Agency, we have visitors from Defence intelligence and all the intelligence oversight structures present.

Year after year they attend as guest of the Hon. Minister. Why? It is because intelligence is a serious business and the people that are present hold serious positions in our intelligence constitutional structures.

Hon Chairperson, there is an incorrect and dangerous perception that intelligence entities and its connected activities are not desirable in a constitutional state that prides itself on a Bill of Rights such as ours. The argument as I understand it, is that our Constitution demands accountability and transparency and that secrecy is an infringement and a violation of a host of fundamental rights that are provided for in our Constitution.

However, these so called experts and constitutional analysts must be reminded, firstly that the Security Services of Republic of South Africa consists of the Defence Force, the South African Police Service and the civilian intelligence service. This is in terms our Constitution. Furthermore the Constitution specifically provides the authority for the establishment of the intelligence services. Accordingly the power, the obligation and the authority to establish intelligence services is firmly entrenched in our Constitution.

Hon. Chairperson so these progressive perceptions that I have referred to and their advocates are lost in a misunderstanding of their own distorted perceptions. They choose to identify and accept only those constitutional provisions that further their own agenda.

But our Constitution also provides that national legislation must regulate the objects, powers and functions of the intelligence services - it`s there - you`ll find it in Sec 210 of the Constitution.

We have existing legislation: there`s

the Intelligence Services Act 65 of 2002,
the National Strategic Intelligence Act of 1994, and
the Protection of State Information Bill
Sorry, Hon Chairperson, when you mention the "Protection of State Information Bill" it brings on nightmares in some people. They start to have traumatic, very upsetting, or extremely difficult and troublesome experiences.

Chairperson, the Hon Members are reminded, that only the other day this House passed, the General Intelligence Laws Amendment Bill - the Bill merely provides for a few technical amendments to the existing intelligence legislation which I have just mentioned. But people, some of them opposed the Bill- they voted against it in the House - they voted against what the Constitution prescribes - let me quote what the Constitution states, I quote "National legislation must regulate the objects, powers and functions of the intelligence services, including any intelligence division of the defence force or police service …" That`s what the Constitution states- this is what the General Intelligence Laws Amendment Bill is all about and the legislation concerned was enacted in this Parliament during our democratic era. Suddenly there is a problem with the legislation. How can you take people like this serious?

The Hon Minister has now announced - that the new National Security Strategy is to be finalised in 2014 - and again it is the Constitution which provides that:

"national security is subject to the authority of Parliament and the national executive" and it is the Constitution that says that "national security must be pursued in accordance with the law, including international law".

What constitutes "national security" is not a simple matter.

The Constitution therefore envisages this difficulty and hence section 198 sets out the governing principles which should govern national security in the Republic. The announcement by the Min. of the new National Security Strategy must be welcomed and I believe that the people of South Africa will soon be invited to participate in the initiative.

Just to emphasis the problem at hand, Hon. Chairperson, it is a fact that there is no single universally accepted definition of "national security". Even as a concept which philosophers, security analysts and other experts have attempted to analyze over the centuries, there is no generally accepted view of what constitutes "national security".

However, we are confronted by the realities of globalization and the inherent threats which follow it. We observe therefore that all around the world democratically elected governments and countries are faced with increased threats of terrorism, espionage, cyber-crimes and information peddling. These are but a few of the serious threats that we in South Africa also face. You heard the Minister on some of these threats.

We must not ponder or argue to long over what a "national security strategy" means in a democratic South Africa - what we do know is - no country in the world can ever tolerate or be soft on espionage and information peddling. Cyber-crime is the modern day "weapon of mass destruction" used by criminals.

Chairperson, I am merely highlighting the importance, yet the complexities of national security matters. So I now have to return to a very sensitive matter.

So as a responsible step and to comply with the Constitutional provision which obliges that Government and Parliament to provide for the national security of the RSA in compliance with the law - Parliament has now passed the Protection of State Information Bill.

It is a security Bill and nothing more - directly related to "national security" - protecting our national security - is this not what we are mandated to do by the Constitution?

Yes, Chairperson, now you see some of the Honourable Members are having anxiety attacks again. The truth of the matter is that so called "experts and analysts" and a whole host of ill-advised and ill-informed individuals have a mind-set that demonstrates negative and scandalous criticism only.

Anything and everything is condemned. They are not prepared to have a constructive debate on the national security of our country. But when things go wrong they are the first to cry "intelligence failure". How do you identify an intelligence failure if you do not understand what our intelligence entities do and how their work relates to national security? They can only offer negative criticism.

Chairperson, no disrespect meant - let me give the House an illustration of what I have been saying. A Hon. Member of this House and a member of this Committee - who should know better and should appreciate matters of intelligence and national security, made a media statement recently: He says in his statement and I quote, "South Africa is increasingly moving towards a secret state mentality. The State Security Agency has invested more time and energy into legislation such as the Secrecy and Spy Bills than ensuring that they are appropriately managed" - unquote. Now this is not true.

Firstly, the SSA does not make legislation - it is this Parliament that does. Then I take it that the Hon Member of the JSCI was referring to the Protection of State Information Bill and General Intelligence Laws Amendment Bill when he speaks of Secrecy and Spy Bills.

Is the Hon Member seriously suggesting that notwithstanding that the Constitution compels us, this Parliament, to provide the necessary legislation to regulate the intelligence services - we should defy the Constitution? The "Spy Bills" as the Hon Member calls it - were enacted precisely to give effect to the Constitution and have been with us - passed by this democratic Parliament -

Now the Gilab - which is nothing more than a technical Bill - is passed by the House - you find Hon Members opposing the Laws which this House has passed.

Chairperson, on the question of National Security - the JSCI is statutory Joint Committee of Parliament.

Serving on the JSCI is a serious matter. You need to be nominated by your party. You are appointed by the Speaker of the National Assembly or Chairperson of NCOP (as the case may be) acting with the concurrence of the President who acts with the concurrence of leader of your political party.

You have to conduct yourself in a manner which does not constitute a threat to national security.

You need a security clearance - "Top Secret" to serve on the JSCI - you need to take an "oath of secrecy" before a Judge. In other words Chairperson, you have to be a responsible person capable of serving with others on a committee where there is no time to play political games. For work is monitoring those intelligence people who are intricately entrusted with protecting our national security.

On the Committee itself, we do not disclose ourselves as members of any political party. We are simply members of the JSCI. All Committee Members, at least that is what I thought, understand the importance of the work that we do - it is about the security our country.

The Oversight Act in fact provides that the Committee must conduct its functions in a manner that is consistent with the protection of national security. Is that not so Hon Members of the Committee? So how is it that a Hon Member of this Committee goes public and state - and I again quote from his statement, he says:

"The State Security Agency must make details of its budget known to the JSCI." unquote.

The Hon Member of this Committee goes further to say, and I quote:

"As a result of this budget being kept a secret, MP`s are unable to properly monitor spending and ensure that irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure is minimized" - unquote.

These statements are simply not true. Members of the JSCI will tell you this. So why would a Hon Member of this Committee behave in this manner? A person whose political party, whose Parliament and the people of this country has entrusted with the national security matters of our country, why behave in this manner?

And the point is Hon. Chairperson, Hon. Members, some people simply do not want to positively contribute. When it comes to matters of intelligence and national security all is negative and confrontational. Let me put it to the Hon. Member of the Committee, have the ANC members of the committee ever behaved in such an irresponsible manner? Have the ANC members of the Committee ever put party political differences before matters of national security?

You know Hon, Member when you raised a matter pertaining to the Leader of your Party, I immediately called for an investigation. And you and the Committee were briefed.

On all the matters pertaining to our work, Crime Intelligence matters relating to General Mdluli, the unfortunate tragedy in the Central African Republic, and others, we have been briefed.

These matters are all presently been dealt with by various institutions. Some are in court and before commissions and are sub judice. Others matters are still under investigation and we, as the JSCI will wait and act responsibly when we need to.

In line with the expected new National Security Strategy announced by the Minister, we must not underestimate the need to modernize and equip our intelligence services with the necessary tools to allow them to do their work effectively. Present day technology and equipment is expensive and can be rendered irrelevant and obsolete in a short time. This puts a strain on budgets.

However, we as South Africans must determine our national security priorities and then fund it in a responsible manner. Our intelligence services have been complaining for years about their equipment and technology. We cannot allow the security of the country to be compromised due to under-funding. For example just in the area of lawful interceptions, the Office of Interception Centre, which deals with these matters, is confronted with ongoing challenges pertaining to capacity, technology and equipment. The JSCI therefore supports any initiative that is directed at upgrading the intelligence capacity, technology and equipment of the Interception Office and our intelligence services.

Hon. Chairperson, as we move towards developing a national security strategy it is important that we do not lose sight the co-ordination of our intelligence services. This to is a Constitutional obligation and an extremely important one. The JSCI is pleased to report that NICOC, the National Intelligence Co-ordinating Committee has been performing well. This was an area of concern in the pass but the JSCI will continue to monitor and give support to NICOC so that our people get the full benefit of their resources.

Chaiperson, thank you to all the staff who work under very stressful conditions. Thanks to opur oversight partners the Inspector General of Intelligence and her staff for their willingness to always be available when needed by the Committee.


Speech by Hon Jerome Maake during the National Assembly Budget Vote Debate on State Security

14 May 2013

Honourable Speaker
Honourable Minister
Honourable Members of Parliament
Ladies and Gentlemen

Intelligence is one area that is usually least understood by a lot of people. The reason being that it is in its nature to be exactly that. It is therefore not surprising that each and every individual has his or her own understanding of what intelligence is all about. My understanding is that intelligence means not telling, it means working underground, and it means working like a spook, as they are of course called.

People usually ask when things go wrong "where was the intelligence, why didn`t "our intelligence pick it up". It is a genuine question to be asked, especially by a member of the civilian population who is, of cause, ignorant of the operational side of intelligence.

The main objective of the intelligence structures is not to arrest and convict perpetrators of illegal activities in the country.

The main objective of these structures is the collection, evaluation and dissemination of information, especially information concerning all potential and actual enemies of the country, be they internal or external enemies.

This information is then passed on to the relevant structures or organs, be it the defence force or the police who then will use the information for arresting and convicting the perpetrators. It is very rare therefore to see, let alone know who these operatives are.

How then do we determine the budget of a department like this one. What happens if a situation arises where this department have added responsibilities because of a threatening situation having arisen? Maybe they should just get an open ended budget where anytime they need funds, funds must be readily available as long as they can account for it.

The same thing will apply to the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence. Does this committee have to go through all processes of requesting for funds for oversight if things need immediate attending to? Sometimes these processes delay and in the meantime things become worse. What actually are we then saying? My suggestion would be that this committee, to some extent, be treated differently as it is indeed different. It was established by the constitution.

I sometimes joke when the intelligence operatives are awarded medals and certificates, where do they hang them because we never see them in any of the houses that we always visit.

This short introduction was only to try and put the workings of intelligence in perspective.

The Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence unlike with many other committees has been established by the Constitution of this Country, the Supreme law of this country.

Amongst others there are the following Acts which always determine the objectives of this committee, just to mention a few:

The Constitution of the Republic of SA
Intelligence Service Oversight Act (Act 40 1994)
Intelligence Services Act (Act 65 2002)
Promotion of Information Act
Amongst others.
The standing policies and the way the committee operates should serve as an example to the opposition in this house. The committee does not or rather is never bogged down by party political issues. We never introduce ourselves as members of parties, we work as one unit for the good and security of our country.

Whilst before the democratic dispersion, intelligence agencies were used to main, kill arrest and torture the majority of the people of this country and our neighbouring countries in order to render them weak. We can today proudly say that ours is an intelligence that is used to protect the country and its people; to protect the sub-region and Africa as a whole against crime, espionage, terrorism and threats of violence, either within or outside the country.

The intelligence agencies were used to prevent a black government from taking over Die Vaderland”; I wouldn`t as a member of the ANC call it a black government, rather I would personally avoid saying that because as I look around, especially within the ruling party, I see all national groups represented, unlike in the previous oppressive government which was totally and exclusively white. Ours can therefore not be called a black government, it the government of the people.

The Constitution of this country, in relation to the government principles of security services says:

National Security must reflect the resolve of South Africans as individuals and as a nation, to live as equals, to live in peace and harmony, to be free from fear and want and to seek a better life.
The resolve to live in peace and harmony precludes any South African citizen from participating in armed conflict, naturally or informatively, except as provided for in terms of the constitution or national legislation.
National Security is subject to the authority of parliament and the national executive, section 199 (6) goes further to state that no member of any security service may obey a manifestly illegal order.
(7) stated, that neither the security services nor any of their members, may in the performance of their functions -

prejudice a political party interest that is legitimate in terms of the Constitution, or
further, in a particular manner, any intent of a political party,
To give effect to the principles of transparency and accountability, multi-party parliamentary committee must have oversight of all security services in a manner determined by national legislation or the rules or others of Parliament
It has become necessary to from time to time remind some people in this house about the governing principles and moralities that govern the workings of institutions and agencies that operate in this country. A lesson from the principles as enshrined in the supreme law of this country. I am therefore going to take a very long quote from the constitution especially because some of the opposition now-a-days are complacent and deliberately forget to read this small book. But when they were still not sure of the direction which the country is taking, ie. when they were still hoarding tin stuffs in preparation for a prolonged war with the ruling party, they would read this little book (the constitution) like a bible.

When it comes to the defence of our country, South Africa is in a very unique situation where our defence and security forces and agencies can without doubt be said to represent the country as a whole. In some countries the defence and security forces represents the ruling party. In South Africa we can proudly say that our security and intelligence structures are for the defence of the country`s citizens as a whole without any discrimination.

It would however be not fair of me not to say anything about the behaviour of the opposition when it comes to sensitive issues concerning the security of the country. The opposition expect to be given this type of information. Those who would like to know what intelligence does and how they do it, where and when they do it, are asking for the impossible.

Where in the world, let alone in the whole universe have we ever seen or heard of such a thing happening. If I was to quote the President, that some people tend to think that they are ruling this country. They must from time to time be reminded that it is the African National Congress who is in power here, and we have no intention of relinquishing this power to anybody especially the DA in the next coming century.

If we were to go according to the demands of the opposition we would have the IFP have a federal republic:

PAC driving the settlers to the sea;
ACDP maybe ban the SACP and arrest Honourable Blade Nzimande
AC - restore Bophuthatswana
DA - discontinue the building of RDPs
Envade Zimbabwe
Forget about our internationalist duty of peacekeeping in Africa and the world over
AZAPO - Change the name of the country to Azania
COPE - let them be the custodian of the Freedom Charter
The ANC definitely supports the Budget Vote.


Speech by Hon Sheila Sithole during the National Assembly Budget Vote Debate on State Security

14 May 2013

Chairpersonson
Ministers and Deputy Ministers
Members of the JSCI
The Inspector General of Intelligence
Acting DG
Acting Co-ordinator for Intelligence
Judge for Interceptions of Communications Judge Yvonne Mokgoro
Acting Directors of Domestic and Foreign Branches
Intelligence Veterans
Members of Intelligence Community
Fellow South Africans

THE ANC SUPPORTS THIS BUDGET because: We in the ANC ARE GOING monitor the use of these state resource, because the money belong to the people of The Republic of South Africa. And the ANC loves the PEOPLE.

Na mi losa hinkwenu va ka hina, ni nkhensa ku va mi ni yingiserile, hikuva sweswi ni lava ku hi bula hi mhaka ya nkoka, ya vuhlayiseki, se mi fanele ku yingisela hi vutlhari lebyi kulu. Intelligence a hi ku dya vuswa, I mhaka yak u fan a ku hanya. Loko hi hlaseriwa, hinkwaswo swi ta yima. Loko munhu a vulavula hi vuhlayiseki, fambani eka ticomputer ta nwina na tifoni, mi tsala www.google, mi tsala vito ra kwe na xivongo, na phati leyi a nge I yimela yona, mi tsala place of birth, mi ta kuma ntiyiso, kumbe mi tsala citizenship, internet a yin a jelezi yi ta mi byela laha XINKAVANA XA YENA xi nga wela kona. Se mi ta twisisa leswaku hikwalaho ka yini, a ngari na mhaka na ku vuhlayiseki bya tiko leri byi van a xihundla, ka ku tala I ku munhu ya loye wa swi tiva ku marhambu ya yena a ma nga boleli kona ka tiko leri, na kona loko nyimpi yo tshika yi lo ngindi, u to rhwala mali leyi ana a nga tela ku ta pheba yona a suka a famba. A hi tlhariheni va ka hina, hi nga xisiwi hi lava nga ta Joni la Afrika Dzonga. Kuna Research leyi kombaka kuri tiko leri ra hina hi rona ri nga na swicelwa ku tlula matiko ya misava, vanwana va lava vulavulaka ngopfu, va tele swona vat a muka.

We expect the Accounting Authority, and the Accounting Officer to monitor very passionately the implementation of programmes and projects for effective and efficient protection of the state of the Republic of South Africa. Proper Programmes and project management are important for value creation for any organization, be it private or public or even a church organization for that matter. Good corporate governance demands sound FINANCIAL and OPERATIONAL control over the management of PROGRAMMES and PROJECTS.I fully appreciate the fact that:

The intelligence services worldwide face a bigger challenge of the wide scope on national security that moves focuses on more than just the military well being of the state but also have to assist government in the analysis of soft security issues. The hard security issues are becoming transnational in nature and require more coordination and more resources to tackle.

It needs to be stressed that the Intelligence structures require a strong budget that will:

1. empower them to protect our territorial borders, integrity, and the sovereignty of the Republic of South Africa
2. To match the determination of the organised criminals and
3. Those who are hell bent on destabilising our domestic security and that of the continent.

In addition to monitoring that the Agency spends in line with the Annual Performance Plans and targets approved by the Minister, the Committee has a responsibility of monitoring that

The Agency assist in the fighting corruption in the country, as corruption is not only in the public sector but in every where in society. E.g. there is a church leader who is currently under investigation for corrupt practices.

I therefore say that this budget D.G. need to be spent wisely starting with the streamlining of functions and structures. You will need to do the following:

1. Report to the JSCI at least 4 time a year and on time.
2. That at all times, you will remember that although the PFMA allows you to delegate, the ACCOUNTING RESPONSIBILITY REMAINS WITH YOURSELF as I indicated to you on your last appearance. No other person, DG, yourself, is responsible for this budget, the other people that is your baby, you have to look after this money in a manner that is compliant with the PFMA, Act No. 1 of 1999.
3. You have to correct all the short comings that we have indicated to you.
4. You have to ensure that the RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE AUDITOR GENERAL ARE address, I do not want to see the same reccomandations over and over and over again.
5. You must make assurance double sure, that there is Consequence for WRONG DOING if there is any such finding by the Auditor General.
6. Tighten financial control, by ensuring that the Internal Audit system and Risk control is working properly. Take seriously the recommendation of the Audit Committee, if you do not have it, make sure it is there by tomorrow, and GUARANTEE its independence, because it will work for you.
7. If you receive this allocation and do not do what I have adviced you DG, I will influence the committee to RECOMMEND TO THE MINISTER, to most humbly relieve you of your responsibilities. Don`t listen to the News Paper, adhere to the PFMA, The Intelligence Services Oversight Act, and MORE THAT ALL, your own conscious and loyalty to your own country South Africa, your responsibility to protect and defend the hard won freedom of our land, the freedom for which many have spent all their lives, the freedom for which Ruth First, Bram Fisher, Chris Hani, Oliver Reginald Thambo, Walter Sisulu Mama Sperepere, Mark Shope, Winnie Mandela, Ruth Mompati Adelaid Thambo and Nelson Mandela, Sheila Wynberg just to name a few, have spent all their lives fighting for. Use this budget to Protect, the citizens of South Africa.

 

 

 

 

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