Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 23 Nov 2023
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THURSDAY, 23 NOVEMBER 2023
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Watch here: Plenary
Members of the mini-plenary session met at Good Hope Chamber at 14:00.
House Chairperson Mr C T Frolick took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chairperson, I move that the report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Ms E R J SPIES: Hon House Chair, 66 dysfunctional municipalities later, multiple qualified audit findings, the latest being adverse, the department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs itself is a dysfunctional institution. This department saw a dim glimmer of light with the exit of former Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Minister Damini-Zuma, and the arrival of our current Minister, unfortunately, the Minister was doomed from the start, that glimmer of light was short-lived.
It’s again with great concern that I have read about the ongoing issues plaguing the Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs. The financial performance has remained unchanged from the previous two financial years with this department still the only auditee with qualified audit findings. The recent events and the persistent challenges reflected in the District Development Model, DDM, highlights that the fundamental incompetence within this department and its leadership, the lack of proactive measures to resolve these conflicts and the absence of a robust framework for interventions in distressed municipalities, reflects the leadership deficit within the Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs.
It is imperative to hold those responsible for the management of our nation’s governance structures accountable for these failings. What we find, instead, is a number of strategies that are crafted with macro management plans instead of direct intervention needed to eradicate cadre deployment. The performance monitoring at local government remains focusing on processes only when quality outcomes are more urgent and useful in the immediate situation. Because of this disastrous condition of most municipalities, managers and directors are more focused on their own job security, than the opportunity for innovation and transformation.
Municipalities are facing a deeper funding crisis both in the structural funding as well as access to new and different funnels of revenue. It is, therefore, hon Chair, ... [Interjections.] ... inconceivable that the Sixth Parliament would ask the blind to lead the cripple ... [Interjections.]
... across the bridge or river infested with crocodiles of corruption ... [Interjections.] [Time expired.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, may I remind you that you only have two minutes to make a declaration.
Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Chairperson, let us say state from the beginning that the EFF will reject this Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR,Vote 3 and 15 for obvious reasons. One of the reasons is that the Minister is not taking us seriously, she’s not even here. I’m talking about today. I’m saying that the Minister is not here today. Chairperson, this Minister ... [Interjections.] ... has claimed that they are operating under the mandates of the department. Let me just remind this Minister ... [Interjections.] ... Chairperson, can you tell ... [Interjections.] ... to shut up.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, please let’s address each other in respectful terms. I’m not addressing hon members who are human beings in that way.
Please allow the hon member to be heard. Please continue.
Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Chairperson, one of the department’s mandates is to promote sustainable development by providing support and exercising oversight over the provincial and local government. So now, the Minister and the department failed to spend R4,3 billion. from the allocation in in her department. Sadly, this amount will be surrendered back to the National Revenue Fund. This is not the first time the underspending happened in the department, an amount of R2,8 billion incurred in the previous financial year. As that was not enough, Chairperson, again, there was an underspending by
municipalities on the disaster management conditional grant. Can you imagine, Chairperson, disaster management, which is a critical unit within the department, and which is supposed to be on standby for 24 hours.
So, the failure must be attributed to the department and there is no amount that can express the pain caused to the poor people by the Minister. This is a clear demonstration that the department does not have a capacity to exercise an oversight over the provincial and local government, in a nutshell. The casing point is eThekwini Municipality, whereby the eThekwini Municipality failed to spend R1,6 billion that was meant for flood victims, and again, you ask yourself if the department is supposed to be a supervisor or a big Brother to the municipality, how is it going to manage that because, they themselves even failed to spend R4,3 billion from the allocated budget in their department? ... [Interjections.] ... Chairperson, we reject this budget, and we are saying that you can’t be part of the ... [Interjections.] ... and you can’t be part of the failures of the department. Thank you, Chair. [Time expired.]
Ms S A BUTHELEZI: Hon Chairperson, since as far back as 2007, this House has been lamenting the state of our municipalities,
and here we are, 16 years later, and things have only gotten worse. We have heard that of the 257 municipalities in our country, 153 municipalities are distress, and 66 municipalities are dysfunctional. How, then, can the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs underspend R4,3 billion of the allocated budget, which is twice the under-expenditure amount of the previous financial year?
As I have stated earlier this week, we cannot allow for this growth and blatant deprivation of crucial services from our people. Under expenditure, directly equates to a lack of financial planning, the mismanagement of resources and a serious lack of leadership. A further and related point of concern is the Department of Traditional Affairs under expenditure of R5,6 million. Surely, these funds could have gone towards the protection of amakhosi and izinduna, considering that we are increasingly seeing our traditional leaders being murdered.
We have come to a point where we can no longer merely vocalise our disdain for the mismanagement of the governmental departments that are bleeding the hard-earned money and resources of the South African people. Therefore, we as the
IFP, call upon the people of South Africa to put an end to this in the 2024 national elections. The IFP accepts the accept the report. Thank you, Chairperson.
Mr I M GROENEWALD: Hon Chair, the ANC say that it is a caring government, but they don’t want the good story to be spoiled with facts. A fact is that the North West province did not even address one petition in the current five-year term, and their petition committee sit only twice in the last five years, the petition that is handed in by the people the ANC says they care for. In fact, in terms of the state of local government overview report, is that 89% of municipalities isn’t able to respond to service delivery complaints, and the repairs and maintenance can can’t be fully executed due to capacity and budget restraints.
A fact is that low and medium capacity municipalities, that is the majority of municipalities, do not have technical or financial capacity to plan and access infrastructure. A fact is that Treasury had to take back billions from municipalities due to the incapacity of the ANC government to spend, therefore, the ANC government could not deliver. The fact of the matter is that the rotten governance of the ANC ensured that municipalities is a major contributor to inflation, but
the ANC government tells municipalities to increase their own revenue in a struggling economy without delivering the services.
Afrikaans:
Die ANC se mooi woorde om die kiesers te paai, gaan hulle in 2024 inhaal, want die kiesers hoor die mooi woorde, maar hulle lewe ’n ander realitiet as die ANC politike elite. Die feit is, na 2024 se verkiesing, gaan die opposisie die geleentheid hê, om te herbou wat die ANC afgebreek het.
English:
It must be bad for the ANC members to listen on how the opposition bash them for bad governance, it must be bad for the ANC members in the House to listen to their failures, but what is worse, is that they must stand up and defend the ANC although they know that the opposition is speaking the truth. Look at the House today, there are actually more of the opposition than there are ANC members as it will be in 2024. Thank you, Chair.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, the NFP will support the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR report of Cooperative Governance tabled here today. However, we want to
raise some of the concerns that we have, that 240 out of 480 employees whose services were terminated by the department on the expenditure sitting at R4,3 billion. It received a qualified audit opinion once again with R3,4 billion in irregular expenditure. Only 38 of the 257 municipalities received a clean audit.
Municipalities for fruitless and wasteful expenditure reach 4,7 ... [inaudible.] ... Chairperson, year in and year out, every time we debate these reports, we establish and identify the problem areas. Questions is, why is it continuing? Are we doing enough to ensure that we change this to ensure that we get better governance in these municipalities and other structures? I think we need to do a lot more.
Very importantly, we have raised again and again the issue of not getting value for money where corruption particularly in the KwaZulu Natal municipalities, corruption is rife, tender fraud is rife and nobody seems to be wanting to take interest in sorting those things out.
Unless we do that, there will be very little money available to provide services to the people because a handful of people in all these minimalities are benefiting from it. That very
same money that they use to ensure that people, counsellors and things that are on the way are assassinated and removed at public representative, this is what is happening it’s the money that is coming from these local governments.
It's the root cause of coalitions collapsing, it’s the root cause of assassinations in KwaZulu Natal particularly and I think the time has come where we need to deal with this. The NFP will support this report. Thank you very much.
Mr G G MPUMZA: House Chair, the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report in process plays a critical role in the budget cycle in assessing the impact of the budget allocation and programme implementation of the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs and its entities.
Municipalities significantly underspend on disaster management conditional grants and other grants with a notable focus on the disaster response following the floods of April May 2022. The portfolio committee highlighted this issue of underspending during the discussion on the department’s third quarter performance report.
The financial year concluded with the department having an irregular expenditure with a closing balance of R3,4 billion. We implore the department to take decisive action to ensure consequence management and discipline management that must be enhanced in local government.
We however welcome the intervention by the department in supporting distressed municipalities with government challenges and lack of technical capabilities. With regard to the Traditional Affairs, there was a decline in service delivery performance for the department. It decreased for attaining 100% of the predetermined objectives in the 2021-22 financial year to 82% in the 2022-23 financial year.
The department encounters significant challenges in both human and financial resource capabilities. The department’s efforts to support the traditional leadership for development will enhance the rural development. The Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs is urged to lead in improving its audit outcomes and the local sphere of government. The ANC supports this report.
Question Put.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS AND INFRASTRUCTURE
Ms G K TSEKE: House, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move that the report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr I S SEITLHOLO: Hon House Chairperson, the sad reality that faces South Africa is that the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure does not work. The sad reality is that the construction mafia have found their man and Minister Zikala. The reality is that we have prime property belonging to the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure being illegally occupied and stripped naked under the watchful eye of this failed and incompetent Minister.
The sad reality is that we have a department that has been red flagged by the Auditor-General, the Public Service Commission and the Commission for Gender Equality because it has failed
to offer safe spaces for victims of gender-based violence, GBV and has equally failed to offer proper accommodation space for client departments to execute their service delivery mandate.
The Minister has been busy, but it has been a different kind of busy. He has crisscrossed the country and sat down with the media to assure everybody that arrests have been made and plans are underway to deal with the problem, that is the construction mafia once and for all.
Except, he has failed to proof his claims of arrests made and neither has he come up with measures to stop the rampage by the construction mafia. The truth is, the Minister is either unwilling or has no clue how to solve this festering mess in the construction sector.
South Africa deserves a DA led national government that will take proactive steps in dealing with the construction mafia manners as it is the case here in the City of Cape Town under Mayor Geordin Hill-Lewis. The mayor launched a 24-hour hotline to report extorsion related crimes relating to construction projects in the city.
The hotline works on a reward basis to encourage residents to help authorities tackle extorsion. It is time to rid ourselves of the criminal syndicate, that that is the ANC. It is time to vote for the DA in 2024 in order to take back our country from these mafias. I thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, before I recognise the hon member, hon members, and I would like to ask the Chief Whip of the DA to counsel the member. What he did now is not allowed. I know the member is still new, but he is here to learn the rules. He must read the rules. He cannot introduce from the podium any form of element of publication that has not been authorised by the presiding officer. I did not give permission to that. So, ignorance is not an excuse for failing to understand the rules. It’s wrong! The EFF?
Mr V GERICKE: Hon Chairperson, thank you for that reprimand, because knowledge is power. Chairperson, we are gathered again to debate on a budgetary review for the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure. And through this report it has become clear that the department does not have a clue what to do with their funds. The department found itself underspending with an amount of R243 million that could have been utilised fruitfully.
Unfold posts are still the norm of the day. Lack of manpower means lack of service delivery. No mandate will be fulfilled and accomplished. The Department is still struggling with control of submission of invoices, which led to underspending of R50 million. Conditions not fulfilled led to a loss of
R100 million. Non-delivery of assets audit left the department with a minus of R9 million. The department is still faced with unfinished disciplinary cases. The employment should be celebrated if we speak of permanent jobs with benefits and not an insourcing of Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP beneficiaries.
Chairperson, the National Infrastructure Plan that is labelled NIP 2050 will never be realised, realised as it will remain a plan on paper. What is the role of infrastructure South Africa in dealing with infrastructure? We still wait for the correct response as the response changes depending on what is explained.
An amount pf R433 million transferred to provincial departments does not mean it served its purpose, but we cannot find any evidence. Not reaching targets is of concern. These are just some of the highlights mentioned, Chairperson. This is a clear indication that the department is in a lost course.
It is clear that to deal with infrastructure in South Africa is to establish a construction company that will deal with infrastructure and move away from tenders that only benefit the elite. It is time we focus on taking South Africa forward and stop milking the state dry. Minister, it is up to you to push the government's infrastructure company to save your department. Thank you very much.
Mr S ZONDO: Hon House Chairperson, the IFP notes with disappointment over the snail pace at which this department is moving, if at all, to address its budgetary shortcomings despite yearly calls to do so. It is concerning that government properties lie in ruins whilst the department experienced an under-expenditure of more than R243 million of its total allocation for this financial year.
While we appreciate the department’s efforts in ensuring that it remains within budget, we would be doing a disservice to the people of this country if we ignored that it falls short of meeting its own performance plans. We are alarmed that despite ours being a highly skilled yet unemployed nation, the department has failed to fill critical positions despite endless promises of job creation. Presently, one of the biggest issues facing this department is social unrest and the
invasion of projects by construction mafias which causes undue delays in completion dates and unnecessary over spending on infrastructure projects.
While we commend the department for its transformative policies on paper, we have to emphasise that policy without implementation is a fruitless and even self-defeating exercise. Thus, the targets of policies will remain just that if not furthered by willing and competent professionals and entities. As a party, we remain committed to offering wisdom to the department in its constitutional efforts. The IFP accepts this report. I thank you, House Chairperson.
Afrikaans:
Mr P A VAN STADEN: Agb Voorsitter, ons moet die vraag vra: Waar is Infrastruktuur SA en waar is die Departement van Openbare Werke en Infrastruktuur? Net soos met enige ander departement in hierdie regering, is daar geen uitsondering wanneer dit kom by die wanfunksionering van hierdie departement en sy entiteite nie.
Ons hoor sedert 2019 dat daar ’n plan is om beleggers vanaf die buiteland te lok, om in Infrastruktuur SA te kom belê. Die wonderlikse kongresse en berade word deur die President gehou,
maar ons sien nooit een enkele sent van die geld wat in die land in kom nie.
Ons moet vir onsself die vraag vra, hoekom? Die antwoord is baie duidelik. Dit is omrede Suid-Afrika nie stabiel genoeg is nie. Die antwoord hierop is dat ons met ’n regering sit wat toelaat dat korrupsie en wanadminstrasie hierdie land vernietig en absoluut niks daaraan doen om die situasie om te keer nie. Dit is die rede waarom beleggers nie in hierdie land belê nie. Ons regering beskerm ’n klomp korrupte skelms.
English:
Stop looking at the so-called problems, like the decentralisation of government into national, provincial and municipal levels, and start cleaning up this government and this department and then you will see a different picture.
Start cleaning up your own mess. It is time to rebuild, it is time to send the ANC out. Thank you, House Chairperson.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chairperson, the National Freedom Party supports the report tabled here today and notes that this department spent 36% of its budget. I think R4,74 billion was spent on the Expanded Public Works Programme ... [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There seems to be a connection problem for hon Shaik Emam ...
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Can you hear me, sir?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I can hear you now again. There has been a break in your transmission, we couldn’t hear you.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Sorry about that. While there was a target of 5 million jobs, the department did achieve job opportunities for just over 4 million. I was talking about the Expanded Public Works Programme, House Chairperson, where it is being exploited and a whole lot of corruption that goes on at municipalities.
Now R2,7 billion has been spent on maintenance on government buildings. Despite that, many of the government buildings are in a state of disrepair, particularly hospitals, clinics and things of that nature. There appears to be something wrong with the IT system, House Chairperson, but I’ll continue.
There were 508 cases of fraud, corruption, theft and things that have been reported since 2009. Our concern is that only
16 of these cases are currently being investigated. We also welcome the unqualified audit opinion that the department has received but ask them to concentrate particularly on these fraud and corruption cases that have not been dealt with. The NFP supports the report.
Ms N NTOBONGWANA: Hon House Chairperson and members of the House, the ANC supports the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, of the Portfolio Committee on Public Works and Infrastructure. Though it supports this report, it recognises both the progress and challenges which require the attention of the department.
The department is playing a critical role through Infrastructure South Africa to develop infrastructure as part of implementing the Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan. Steady progress has been made by the entities reporting to the department, while others are performing well. Corporate governance of the entities has improved and there is always room for further improvement in financial controls.
The department plays a critical role in programmes and projects for the development of infrastructure and job creation through the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP,
which has created nearly million jobs over ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.] ... framework. The role of Property Management Trading Entity, PMTE, is critical and this entity
...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, just give me an opportunity to address these members on the virtual platform. Hon Deputy Minister, Dipuo Peters, will you switch off your microphone please? Please continue, hon member.
Ms N NTOBONGWANA: Thank you, House Chair. The role of the PMTE is critical, and this entity and the property portfolio require constant improvement in maintenance as well as in revenue generation. Something that we have said as the portfolio committee is that this department has a potential to raise revenue. The portfolio committee is expecting the conclusion of the feasibility study for the small harbours of Port Saint Johns and Port Alfred and for the construction to commence to enable microeconomic development in the areas for the benefit of the surrounding communities, especially in Eastern Cape.
Under spending is an issue in relation to human resource and the department has been improving in this regard, though not
what we want. The report makes important observation and recommendations which must be implemented, and the committee will seek progress reports on this. The committee will engage in enhanced oversight over the work and programmes of the department and its entities as it plays a critical role in transformation process ... [Time expired.] ... The ANC supports the BRRR. Thank you.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT
Ms G K TSEKE: Thank you very much, House Chair. I move:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of votes:
Mr J N De VILLIERS: Chair, we often talk about the challenges of running a small business, challenges like access to finance, government red tape, access to support programmes,
crime syndicates and many more. However, make no mistake about it, there is no more pressing issue for small business than the ANC government’s inability to ensure a stable and sustainable energy supply. It should come as no surprise that yesterday we once again returned to stage 4 load shedding.
The small business sector which is the largest employer in the country still faces the near insurmountable challenge of getting access to uninterrupted electricity largely due to limited financial resources. There was, however, a very brief light in the small business development tunnel because on 18 January this year the Minister of Small Business Development, Stella Ndabeni-Abrahams, announced the development of an energy relief package for small business which was widely welcomed by industry, yet, here we are ten months later.
Despite the urgency and the critical nature of the energy crisis no further information or progress on this relief package has been communicated and no budget for it exists.
It is becoming increasingly clear that the Minister’s promise was perhaps never a commitment but rather an electioneering maneuver. This is more testament to the fact that neither does the Minister nor the ANC really cares about the small business. The Democratic Alliance stands in solidarity with
the millions of small business owners who are struggling to survive in this relentless energy crisis. The small business sector pivotal to the South African economy deserves more than vague promises and a lack of decisive leadership. They need support and they need commitment to energy security. The DA does not support this Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report.
Dr S S THEMBEKWAYO: Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report with its budget cuts. The smaller businesses are suffering in townships and rural areas more especially in Zululand; Nongoma Municipality and AbaQulusi Municipality, where the informal traders are forced to fill in IFP membership forms before they get the support of the municipalities. All small businesses in particular informal traders of most rural municipalities in the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal, the North West and Vhembe in Limpopo, have never benefited in any budget of small businesses from both Small Enterprise Development Agency, Seda, and Small Enterprise Finance Agency, Sefa, till to date.
To cut the budget you are permanently putting small businesses in mostly disadvantaged situation. Women who are supposed to be empowered are not receiving enough financial support. The
only thing that they are exposed to on a daily basis is the continuous harassment by the police. We have also realised that unemployment in the country is too high yet women who can produce high quality clothes are not receiving any financial support from the department. Therefore, the EFF rejects the Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members.
Mr S L NGCOBO: Chair, the IFP is committed to fostering a thriving environment for all small and medium-sized enterprises which is integral to the economic growth and prosperity we envision. Unfortunately, the Auditor-General’s report on the performance of the Department of Small Business Development and its entities raised concerns with material findings identified. A major concern is the Department of Small Business Development’s inability to meet 44% of its annual performance plan targets in the financial year 2022-23.
The primary cause identified is the presence of vacancies in critical job categories. The committee’s recommendation to expedite recruitment efforts to fill the vacant posts must receive critical attention. This will not only address the underperformance issue but also contribute to the effective
implementation of the Department of Small Business Development’s objectives. In terms of achievements over the Medium-Term Strategic Framework period, the report indicates that 33% of its targets were unachieved. This is deemed unacceptable as the department itself sets out its targets.
The committee also draws attention to the decline in audit findings of the Department of Small Business Development agencies. It recommends swift action to monitor and assist agencies in implementing the Auditor-General’s recommendations. Accountability of accounting authorities and the board of directors for improving control is stressed.
Ensuring proper record keeping and accurate information accessible to support ... [Inaudible.] ... Hon Chair, we are highly concerned that the decline in developmental performance will give rise to greater difficulty for small businesses who need all the support from the government they can get especially ... [Time expired.] ... challenges. The IFP supports this Report. Thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, the NFP supports the Report Tabled here today. One matter of concern is that while
R2,5 billion was provided only R1,7 billion in loans were distributed. That is an under expenditure which affects
economic growth by limiting the amount of money that you are making available for small businesses.
The other problem, of course, we have is that when we look at the Department of Small Business Development breakdown on how this money was distributed, it is very concerning and this is what it says; R2,09 billion was given to black-owned businesses, R928 million to women-owned businesses, 500 ... [Inaudible.] ... disabilities. Now the question is, what about the rest of the economies if such a great society in which multiracial groups ... [Inaudible.] ... large percentage is only allocated to the black communities?
Whilst I do understand and appreciate that there is this high levels of inequality but I think we need to encourage all people of races particularly in the country to enter into small businesses, that is paramount to economic growth in the country. I must thank the member from the EFF for raising that and that is absolutely correct. In the IFP-run municipalities they only serve the IFP people and IFP members. I am glad that you have raised that and you have mentioned some of those areas. You are absolutely correct, Zululand District Municipality, the AbaQulusi Municipality and those areas.
There is a lot of corruption taking place and how much more
money do you think is coming out from all these corruptions as well? So, these are some of the problems.
My concern is Tiger brands, the informal spaza shops in the rural areas which perhaps might have an effect on the sustainability of the smaller ... [Inaudible.] ... I think to a very large extent we must keep them out of the rural areas
... [Time expired.] ... Thank you, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is a member on the platform, the hon Gabriel, I can’t see the surname. He is continuously switching on his microphone. Can we just ask the National Assembly, NA, Table to please, monitor. When the discussions take place, monitor your screens. So, can you just disconnect that member, please. Please, pay attention.
Mr M NYHONTSO: No declaration, Chair.
Mr F JACOBS: Chair, the ANC endorse the Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report. We acknowledge the work that has been done by the department. The informal sector especially the traders play a very significant role in economic progress and job creation contributing more than 6% to the GDP and a third of the total job creation. So, it is important that we
continue supporting the small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs, informal traders’ businesses.
I think the department is actively working towards the implementation of the recommendations by the Auditor-General especially prioritising the filling of vacancies to improve its performance. Addressing the 33% shortfall of the Medium- Term Budget Framework targets is a top priority. We also want to commend the department for exceeding the targets of supporting co-operatives with more than 321 co-operatives supported exceeding the target by 121.
To deal with the red tape, the ANC proposes that we get a parliamentary ad hoc committee to reduce bureaucratic hurdles. We also commended the department for its commitment to settle supplier support within 30 days. The ANC, therefore, supports this Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report. Thank you, Chair.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PLANNING MONITORING AND EVALUATION ON VOTE 14 OF STATISTICS SOUTH AFRICA
There was no debate.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY moved: That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr J J MCGLUWA: House Chairperson, on 16 November 2023, Statistics SA released its Quarterly Labour Force Survey, which indicated that the Western Cape’s unemployment rate has dropped 4,3% year on year. Statistics SA’s Quarterly Labour Force Survey further reveals that the employment rate in the province rose by 12,6% year on year as 305 000 jobs were created between quarter three of 2022 and quarter three of 2023. Indeed, a good story to tell about the Western Cape and South Africa could be under a DA-led government. Under the DA, we reduce unemployment, poverty, and inequality within a short space of time. Half of South Africa’s population lives in KwaZulu-Natal, in Gauteng, and Western Cape. The ANC has failed rural communities as more South Africans move to urban areas for better opportunities.
The Western Cape has moved from being the 5th largest province in population in 1996 to being the third largest in 2022.
South Africa and the world trust the DA governance as investment and tourism flow under the DA.
In July 2023, the City of Cape Town was again voted the best city in the world. We certainly govern better. The vacancy rate in the department is also too high at 19,4% and this is the result of budget cuts as National Treasury runs out of money. Overall, what is clear from the Census is the split screen and South Africans are presented of the ANC’s decline and a DA of hope. Next year, South Africans have the opportunity for change. Let us ensure that that next Census speaks of progress under a DA government. I thank you.
Mr M MANYI: House Chair, let me start by commending the hard work of the Statistician-General and his team.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members!
Mr M MANYI: ... they are a group of hard-working professionals, and they mean well. Chairperson, I was shattered to discover that the Auditor-General lamented on R808 million unauthorised expenditures by Statistics SA in the
year under review. Obviously, there’ll be a long explanation to justify this, but ...
IsiZulu:
... okusalayo ...
English:
... prescripts were violated, that’s a fact.
In addition, the Auditor-General again raised the red flag for the R253 million contract awarded by Statistics SA without following the prescripts. It is quite an embarrassment for an institution so importance to make such elementary errors.
Officials of the Statistics SA attributed the unauthorised expenditure to various delays during their work in concluding the 2022 Census, but damage was done. We trust that the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, will investigate these matters. The performance of the admin function of the Statistics SA received the lowest rating of 38%, but no one took accountability for such lacklustre performance. The sad thing is that this is where top management resides.
The report on employment equity figures was meaningless because whatever was reported was not benchmarked against
targets, which are supposed to be in their employment equity plan, so there was no objective to assess whether their performance on employment equity was good or bad. On the Census report, they use self-invented nomenclature. They talk about black Africans, yet two prescripts; the Employment Equity Act and the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Act are very clear that the generic term “black” includes the entire spectrum of Africans, Coloureds, and Indians. No such thing in law as black African. The discussion was settled in 1998 when His Excellency, President Mandela, signed off the Employment Equity Act. Chairperson, barring the issues raised here, will gladly support the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR.
Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, I thought the Chief Whip of the Opposition was crossing the floor, and coming to the podium, but she went there.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No, I thought she was blocking your way.
Mr N SINGH: Oh, you thought she was blocking my way? I need injury time, I think. Hon Chairperson and colleagues, we realize that election is about five months away. And we
realize that some members of some political parties, especially the one-man band parties, will come here and postulate about things and criticize other political parties. But let Statistics speak for themselves. Look at the results of by-elections over the last few years in KwaZulu-Natal. Look at the number of municipalities that the IFP oversees in KwaZulu-Natal. Watch this space in 2024 in KwaZulu-Natal and you will need more seats for the IFP in this House if we are going to be sitting in this House. So, the one-man band parties must not come here and criticize but look in the mirror in Nongoma where they are holding the mayorship, exactly what is happening and not happening. But I don’t want to enter a debate with parties like that. I want to say, over the years we have come to associate words such as efficient, diligent, punctual, and quality with Statistics SA, as the entity always provides us with clear and understandable statistical reports. What is of concern is the 19,4% or 20% vacancy rate that exists within the entity. In this department we need quality officials, and we need every post to be filled. Can you imagine if they have to go wrong with issues like the Consumer Price Index, CPI, which impacts on inflation and interest rate. We need to ensure that this entity is fully staffed, and they can do the work that they are required to do. We will support this report because Statistics has always
done us well, and South Afrika has done well in that regard. We had excellent Statistician-Generals, and we hope that they continue to produce the kind of work that they do. We will support this report. Thank you.
Mrs H DENNER: Hon House Chair, Statistics SA’s nearly 250 surveys on economic, population, and social statistics are equally as important as the Census data to provide a complete picture of the South African society and the economic drivers behind it. It is therefore extremely important that this entity is properly capacitated.
The Auditor-General’s finding that compliance monitoring by senior management relating to expenditure management, procurement, contract management, and consequence management was not effective due to a lack of adequate oversight is concerning. This has led to, amongst others, irregular expenditure of R253 million incurred for a single contract that was awarded to a bidder who did not meet the muster of the tender process - and this seems to happen quiet a lot in government - completely defying the supply chain management processes of the department, but once again consequence management is lacking, as is the norm in state departments under the ANC government. The vacancy rate of 19,4% is equally
as concerning as is the committee’s observation with regards to employment equity targets.
Afrikaans:
Die kalf is in die put. Statistiek SA is een van die belangrikste entiteite van die regering en moet behoorlik toegerus word. Aanstellings moet dringend gemaak word. Dit is nie nou die tyd om poste vakant te hou, weens gelyke indiensnameteikens nie. Kundige en ervare personeel moet op meriete aangestel word, ongeag hulle ras of geslag, sodat die beste moontlike werk gelewer kan word.
Wat die Sensus 2022 betref, ten spyte van al sy uitdagings is dit prysenswaardig dat die sensusopname in totaliteit op ’n elektroniese wyse geskied het. Dit is egter van uiterste belang dat Statistiek SA kennis neem van die wêreldwye tendens van mense wat nie meer aan massameningsopnames wil deelneem nie. Dit beteken dat die wyse waarop sensusdata versamel word in die toekoms heroorweeg sal moet word.
Statistiek SA se belang in die vooruitgang van ons land moet nie gering geskat word nie. Dit moet behoorlik toegerus en oorsien word. Ek dank u.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Sihlalo weNdlu, ingxaki yethu thina ngabantu abangabalwanga abaza kwenza ingxaki xa funeka kwenziwe umyinge wezinto ezilulutho ebantwini apha eMzantsi Afrika.
English:
House Chair, can I be protected please?
IsiXhosa:
Enye into ebesiyithethile nesinengxaki nayo...
English:
... is that, most departments have a high vacancy rate which makes it very difficult for the departments to discharge their mandate that is expected to them. Another thing is that, without us being able to count people properly, people need to be educated during the period of the census.
IsiXhosa:
Siyayazi ukuba kukhona abantu abathe ababavumela abantu ababalayo ukuba bangene ngaphakathi kumakhaya abo. Kufanele ukuba ibesithi abantu abakhuthalela ukuba sibalwe. Umntu ongafuniyo ukubalwa, afakwe amapolisa, akukhomntu ongazubalwa
apha. Siza kuzihambisa kanjani iinkonzo xa singazubazi abantu ukuba bangaphi? KuseMzantsi Afrika apha, awusayikwenza unothanda apha ucinge ukuba kukwakho. Ukuba ucinga ukwakho apha, phumela ngaphandle.
English:
The other issue that needs our attention is the R200 million of irregular expenditure so that there will be consequence management because there are many entities and departments in government where this occurs, and seemingly no one is being held accountable for such.
IsiXhosa:
Eyona nto isisokolisayo apha eNtshona Koloni kukuba abahlali ababathembanga abantu ababalayo ngenxa yobukrelemnqa. Baye bangavumi ukuba bangene ezindlwini zabo ngenxa yoloyiko lokuba baza kubagebenga. Abantu ababalayo kufuneka bakwazi ukuzibonakalisa ngokucacileyo ukuba basebenzela urhulumente.
Ukuba asikwazi ukuyenza loo nto, siya kuqheleka kakubi. Niya kulawula njee thina apha ePalamente phaya ngaphandle nilawulwe ngala madlagusha. La masela.
Sepedi:
Moh C M PHIRI: Modulasetulo, ke tamiia setihaba sa Afrika Borwa ka kakaretio, ke boe ke tamiie le ba ka letsogong la ka la nngele, bao ba dumelelanago le rena.
English:
Statistics SA has played a critical role in the development of South Africa by providing the empirical statistics data which has been a basic policy of planning and oversight. As the nation, we need to acknowledge the work done and the successful execution of the Statistics SA. Statistics SA release over 200 surveys on a yearly basis on employment, labour, poverty and socioeconomic statistics. Such statistics are aimed at providing evidence-based information to policy making in the private sector and the academics. The entity continues to provide credible statistics for various sectors. We welcome the progress of the development of Statistics SA Amendment Bill which will enhance the data ecosystem.
The amendment will also enable the entity to strengthen the measurement of performance and reporting indicators to produce quality statistics within the Republic of South Africa. Such statistics have achieved 93% of its target set out in the annual performance plan of 2022/23. House Chair, as the ANC we support the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the
Statistics SA and we want to acknowledge and welcome the support that we got from the UDM and the EFF, even though they are partially supporting it. We want to encourage other parties especially the IFP who do not come to the portfolio committee. [Time expired.]
Debate concluded.
Question put.
Agreed to.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PLANNING MONITORING AND EVALUATION ON VOTE 9 OF DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING, MONITORING AND EVALUATION AND BRAND SOUTH AFRICA
Setswana:
SEMESEGOLO SA NAKWANA SA LEKOKO LE LE BUSANG (Moh G K Tseke):
Modulasetilo, ke tshisinya gore pegelo eno e amogelwe. Ke a leboga.
Declarations of Vote:
Mr J J MCGLUWA: House Chair, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation is supposed to hold government accountable and it has failed. It has failed the whole government accountable in the fight against crime and corruption. The very same government official who looted the state are still roaming in the Union Buildings and driving around in the blue light brigades. The Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan aimed at restoring the economy post COVID-19 pandemic seems to be a tick-boxing exercise that has failed.
All the department has done is observe and make recommendations without actions. No appetite to govern. Taxpayer’s money wasted while the department looks on. It is ANC first before South Africans. I was shocked to hear the Minister stood up in this podium and said that life post COVID-19 would be worse without the ANC. That arrogance they exhibit while billions were stolen during COPVID-19.
Then, there is Brand South Africa. The entity has resulted in the break down of trust from the board members to senior management. In 2019, Brand South Africa and South African Tourism were supposed to merge. Today, they are still in limbo with lip service with no implementation. They could not fulfil the mandate in filling the critical positions. Brand South
Africa was not even in a position to promote South Africa during the 2023 Rugby World Cup. When questioned, their frivolous response was that rugby was not in their calendar plan. This leaves much to be desired. They however, deemed it fit to go to watch the game at the public expense and where was the department in all of this? No where to be seen as always. South Africans must vote for a DA-led government as it is only the DA that can improve the life of South Africa. I thank you.
Mr M MANYI: House Chair, this is the Ministry of ongoing work in progress, we will do it in the near future and we are working on it. During the deliberations in the portfolio committee, the EFF cautioned the Minister of Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation not to postpone things to the Seventh Administration as if it is guaranteed that she will be there to finish whatever she failed to do in the Sixth Administration. The Minister was reminded that her administration is a fixed term which will soon end in May 2024 and it is automatic that the current Cabinet will continue unless elections are rigged.
The EFF will come and redo the whole thing. The EFF queried the continued reference with outdated obsolete document called
the National Development Plan which has to date failed dismally to meet all its economic targets and projections. The EFF pointed out the futility of referencing an obsolete document. How can you build on a cracked foundation? It is noteworthy to mention that the auditor-general in her presentation during the session showed a coloured chart of green, orange and red. That dashboard indicated her compliance to her recommendation. The EFF was shocked that for the entire portfolio under review, not a single entity implemented the recommendations of the auditor-general. There was not even a single green indicator for all the recommendations made. This is a fact and not politicking.
How can this department be entrusted with the responsibilities to performance monitor others when it has failed to monitor itself? The presentation for the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation says absolutely nothing about the findings of the auditor-general in terms of its work. The EFF expected an uptight report about how each of the departments were performing. Instead, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, just like its mandating political party, is busy with its own renewal. The EFF rejects this mediocrity. Thank you, Chair.
Mr N SINGH: House Chair, I want to agree with the hon member from the EFF that, to a large extent, this department is not brave enough to put out reports that would show the deficiencies of other departments. I was there when this department was established. I was there when the legislation was passed and it was through former President Jacob Zuma that this department came about. He felt it was necessary to monitor the work of other departments but for a number of years in between, this department has been going nowhere slowly.
We just hope that now there is a new Minister and a new breath of fresh air and she does her job as she is supposed to do.
She has to be independent and give truthful reports about the departments. We speak of so many departments here that have not delivered the goods that have been allocated budgets for but have not promoted efficient service delivery. If this department which resides in the Presidency cannot stand up and be counted, and be honest about what they report, then we will continue to be going nowhere slowly.
However, we need to commend this department for its clean audit outcome in consecutive years. that is a good sign, but when we look at the National Development Plan, NDP Vision 2030
and Sustainable Development Goals, to what extent is this department providing reports? I think it is to the portfolio committee or to Parliament as to how we are progressing in achieving these goals. We do not see these reports and there is no point in having the Vision 2030 and aligning yourself with Sustainable Development Goals if this department cannot adequately monitor.
Lastly, I would like to say, in monitoring and evaluating, what are the consequences for directors-general and Ministers who do not perform? Zero. If a Minister is shifted, it is because of political reasons and not because of a lack of performance. We will support this report. I thank you, Chair. [Time expired.]
Mrs H DENNER: Hon House Chair, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation is apparently ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Deputy Minister Dhlomo, switch off your microphone.
Mrs H DENNER: This department is apparently supposed to support the National Development Plan’s objective of an accountable and transparent government, with the key mandate
of amongst others monitoring the performance of individual national and provincial government departments, as well as municipalities, monitoring frontline service delivery, which does not exist and carrying out evaluations.
If we should ask the general public now here outside what they think about the performance of national and provincial departments and especially, the performance of municipalities, I think we would find that the DPME fails miserably in giving effect to this key mandate. And the same goes for ensuring accountability and transparency in government and I’m sure I don’t even have to explain that statement.
Why is it that the ANC government cannot ensure accountability in state departments?
Afrikaans:
Is dit omdat die ANC self so ’n swak voorbeeld stel, of is dit omdat alles onder die ANC se beheer en bestuur half gedoen word?
English:
Case in point, performance agreements with heads of departments of national and provincial government. These
agreements have been signed in the hope that this will lead to better and proper oversight and better consequence management, but there are no performance agreements with acting DGs and HODs.
These individuals are not required to complete and submit performance agreements and performance assessments, as per the current guidelines, so there’s no consequence management for departments, such as the Department of Labour, for instance, with acting DGs and HODs, because they are not required to submit performance reports. How is this even allowed by the DPME?
Afrikaans:
Dit is so ’n voor die hand liggende beginsel, dat mens nie anders kan as om jou kop in ongeloof te skud vir hierdie halwe werk nie.
Die afleiding dan is dat hierdie departement nutteloos vir die Suid-Afrikaanse publiek is, want hoewel hy glo 95% van sy teikens behaal het, is niks daarvan sigbaar vir die breër samelewing nie. Hierdie toewysing kan beter op ander plekke bestee word. Maak hierdie departement toe. Ek dank u.
Ms T V TOBIAS: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson, firstly, let me deal with the misconception, I would have needed a full week to educate people about performance because in South Africa, ... the ANC became the first democratic state to introduce accountability when Shauket Fakie became the first Auditor-General when transformation and short transparency.
So, the F F Plus must go and learn from what the ANC has done. South Africa is the most transparent government in the whole world.
Secondly, it is very expeditious for Jimmy Manyi to upfront want to deal with the national NDP plans 30-year review when actually the presentation is going to be made tomorrow.
Therefore, the information he gave is false because he still needs to go and read the document tonight. In terms of director-generals in South Africa, the strategic framework and the Annual Performance Plans are predetermined by the performance agreements that director-generals sign to inform their payment. Therefore, hon Chairperson, allow me to continue with my input. First and foremost, the African National Congress supports the BRRR report. The Department of Planning and Monitoring and Evaluations continue to play a critical role in the Presidency through co-ordinating, planning, monitoring and evaluation of government policy
implementation and the year under review the entity has improved its performance, hence the unqualified report. I thank you and since it has also been negative ... [Time expired.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, your time has now expired. Thank you.
Question put. That the Motion be adopted.
Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party, Freedom Front Plus and African National Congress.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SPORT, ARTS AND CULTURE PERFORMANCE OF NATIONAL DEPARTMENT AND ENTITIES
Setswana:
SEMESEGOLO SA NAKWANA SA LEKOKO LE LE BUSANG (Moh G K Tseke):
Modulasetilo, ke tshitsinya gore pegelo eno e amogelwe. Ke a leboga.
There was no debate.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is request of declarations. Order, hon members! Hon Papo, we want to continue with the session. Order, hon Mkhalipi! You will get your opportunity to speak.
Declarations of Vote:
Mr T W MHLONGO: Thank you, Chair, I would like to congratulate Mamelodi Sundowns ladies for winning their second CAF Women’s Champion League title in the in the three years.
IsiZulu:
Ngicela sibashayeleni izandla.
English:
The department has committed itself to have a bill of sports for women, and today we don’t know exactly what is happening with the sports bill. Minister, can you tell us the time frame to implement or to start afresh sports bill? There’s a lack of
leadership within the department. We don’t have a DG. We have acting DG. We have Hollywood actors within the department.
Chairperson, there’s a lack of leadership, above all, to Boxing in South Africa. There are no specific strategic interventions to implement the departmental targets for us to achieve sports federation targets, especially for this financial year. Various federation did not achieve their targets. Various federation did not even receive their funding in time for an example, gymnastic only receive their funding in February, two months before their financial year end. It’s shocking to see that. Minister ...
IsiZulu:
... usesemusha Zizi Kodwa Goodenough yenza okubalulekile.
English:
otherwise, you’ll get a yellow card. Minister, we call upon you to put boxing South Africa under administration. Why we’re saying that? It is because they failed to account to the portfolio committee. They even misled and lied to portfolio committee. They don’t account and even they don’t implement the recommendations of the AG. we call upon the Minister to put them under administration. One of the things that you
wanted to find out, in fact, not finding out. We want to be part of the selection criteria for Board members of all entities, because the Minister has a way to say these are the entities that we must approve. One of the things that we wanted to do, we wanted to know about the White Paper. When are they going to implement it? Because it’s so important to implement the White Paper. [Time expired.]
Mr E MTHETHWA: Thank you, House Chair, the EFF welcomes the report with the reservations. As what verbally presented to the Portfolio Committee on Sports, Arts, and Culture, none of us, as members of the portfolio committee, can vouch for it as fruitful. This is logically due to the fact that the portfolio committee has constantly been denied the opportunity to do site visits that are critical to oversight roles. It therefore logically, explains why the sector has been left behind all the time. Because if its portfolio committee can be treated with such insignificance it clearly displays that there is no care about the sector. This is in an indictment on our hard and constitutional democracy whereby reports are adopted by default due to majority power, a paradox that we as EFF, do not Subscribe to. The DSAC has reported over achievements on targets, yet the picture on the ground speaks the contrary.
Thus, we witness the famous but synonymous with pauper’s
deaths. As EFF, we stand the cause for radical change that will produce real job opportunities, equitable ownership, fair compensation for the use of creative works against the proposed fair use.
The underspending of budget cannot be a permanent feature in the department and its institutions. It is indisputable to observe how the Auditor-General and the Public Protector adverse findings are ignored constantly. Issue of consequential management is not there. Issue of enforcement of the findings that the remedial actions of the Public Protector or the Chapter 9-institutions are often ignored. These can’t be the permanent features in our democracy. In general, the EFF considers the reporting complete without empirical evidence guaranteed by the ... [Inaudible.] ... and as such the EFF welcomes the report with reservations.
isiZulu:
Mr K P SITHOLE: Mhlonishwa Sihlalo, kunzima ukuthi ihhashi uma lifa alisaboni nalo ukuthi lihamba kanjani ngoba uma ubheka uMhlonishwa ... uNongoma uphethwe yiMeya yakhona. Manje uyabona ukuthi ihhashi liyazifela akukho nkinga ke.
English:
Hon Chairperson, this is one department that not only looms in the shadows but one that is also riddled with complacency, inefficiency, and sheer incompetence. Despite bearing the mammoth task of ensuring a harmonious and prosperous nation that thrives in its diversity, the department is failing dismally as instability and inequality continue to dig their claws deeper and deeper into our social makeup. A cycle that we all have a duty to break and do away with.
Hon Chair, the department’s failure to utilise the budget that has been allocated to it is a clear indication that it does not understand the pivotal role it plays in our nation but most importantly, that it is failing to deliver quality services to the people. The IFP would like to emphasise that these challenges will continue to haunt the department for as long as it does not take initiative to fully implement the recommendations at its disposal. A string of vacant posts tramples over its efforts to achieve the performance plans and objectives it has set for itself. The IFP supports the report. I thank you.
Mrs H DENNER: Hon House Chairperson, I will not be able to cover all the aspects of this time in the time allocated to
me. There are many and many important points to be made, but I will highlight only two.
Hon House Chairperson, if you could please just protect me.
The SA Heritage Resource Agency is responsible for the identification, conservation, protection and promotion of South Africa’s heritage resources for the greater good of our society and humanity. Though it has finalised the heritage resources co-ordination plan, it has done little to protect existing heritage sides and symbols which are crumbling before our very eyes all over the country.
Recently the Matlosana Local Municipality merely repurposed the Great Trek Monument without following any sort of protocol. The FFPlus and the Federasie van Afrikaanse Kultuurvereniging, FAK, cultural organisation addressed this issue and it is being rectified, but not a word has been spoken by the SA Heritage Resources Agency. This is but one example.
Hon House Chairperson, there are a few moments as overwhelming as singing the national anthem before the kick-off of the Rugby World Cup final game. Let alone seeing the Boks lifting
the Webb Ellis Trophy cup under our national flag and colours. However, this was nearly not possible during this year’s Rugby World Cup. Why, because the Department of Sport, Arts and Culture failed to give effect to elementary statutory amendments to ensure that South Africa is in line with the World Anti Doping Agency’s antidoping code. Something that this department has known about for nearly three years. I would say that this constitutes very poor performance indeed.
There are many instances where the Department of Sport, Arts and Culture and its entity’s performance left little to be desired.
Afrikaans:
Al word krediet gegee waar dit toekom, bly hierdie departement oorbodig en onnodig. Kultuurgemeenskappe moet die geleentheid gegun word om hul eie kultuur en erfenis te bestuur. Boonop hoort regeringsinmenging hoegenaamd nie in sport nie, veral nie wanneer dit oor die boeg van ’n eie gewin, en met die oogmerk om te verdeel afgedwing word nie.
Bevry ons erfenis en sportnalatenskap van regeringsinmenging; bevry ons van die ANC, ten einde dit wat nog oor is, te red. Ek dank u.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Mandingatyeli ebumnyameni. Enkosi Sihlalo weNdlu. Ndifuna nje ukunixelela iindaba zenu, niyakhetha.
Nicinga into yokuba ezemidlalo ziSpringboks nibe nisingxolela nisifundekela ngale nkcitha-xesha yenu. Nali iqela leqakamba libifikelele kwisemifinal, benikhe nagilana kulo nithenga izikipa? Hayi. Naba abantwana bethu bebengenele ukhuphiswano becheba iigusha, anikhange nibahoye.
Mandinixelele iindaba zenu, kwiBanyana Banyana ndadibebe noDesiree Ellis kwiSitishi seeNqwelo-Moya iO R Tambo ephethe indebe le bayiwinileyo yeAfcon ezifumbathele ngokwakhe kunye neembasa zimsinda. Le ndebe ayiphetheyo phofu ingathi sisitya sokuvubisela izinja. Akahambi nabantu beSafa ukuze bamphathise. Kufuneka athi engumntu ongumama esindwe agobe umqolo ephethe ...
English:
No one recognised Desiree Ellis at the airport because none of you acknowledges ...
IsiXhosa:
... ezinye iindidi zemidlalo. Nicinga ukuba thina sihlalele le nkcitha-xesha yalo mbhoxo wenu. Kutheni le nto ningayi eStellenbosch ukuze niyihoye?
Okwesibini, naba ooBavuma ekubuyeni kwabo phaya ekubeni bebethiwe kumdlalo ophambi kwamagqibela kankqoyi, beniphi noMongameli? Intliziyo ayikhange iphantse ukuma. Abantu abaququzelayo nini kuqala ningamasela nje amana ukubaleka ecaleni kweefaskoti zabelungu apha.
IsiZulu:
Nkz H O MKHALIPHI: Phezu kwabo!
Intliziyo yami icishe yama!
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members, order. The hon Papo.
Mr A H M PAPO: Hon House Chairperson of this House. The hon member just made me to comment about the members of this House and there was a ruling and I think it was made by the House Chairperson, calling hon members of this House thieves.
I do not have a problem with a political difference, but to call hon members of this House thieves is not in line with the rules!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, hon member we had the difficulty with the interpretation services. It went off for a while. We will look at Hansard and a ruling will be made.
Oder, order, hon members! Order. You now sound as the Springboks won the Rugby World Cup. Can you just calm down. Calm down.
The hon Mkhaliphi.
Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Hon House Chairperson, I can interpret.
IsiZulu:
Intliziyo yami icishe yama.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Please do not interpret. Please take your seat.
Do not abuse your freedom of speech in the House, hon member, do not abuse the rules. You are not an interpreter here.
Ms V P MALOMANE: Hon House Chairperson, greetings to all South Africans. The ANC moves for the adoption of the report on the performance of the national of the National Department of Sport, Arts and Culture and its entities. The committee had rigorous deliberations on the performance of the entities presented to them.
Furthermore, considering the department’s annual report and the Auditor-General’s, AG’s, report, we have complete confidence that the recommendations will be implemented with success.
The committee deliberations in the portfolio committee meetings highlighted the key issues that are critical in improving the entities. While they pointed out areas that need improvement, they also appreciated the efforts made the entities in specific pivotal areas of their mandate. This constructive feedback will help the entities to focus on the areas that need improvement and build on their strengths leading to better performance. We are aware of the challenges of the department entities and do not disregard them. Mr
Mhlongo, the challenges of leadership, we know them as we sit here that they are there, but we cannot disregard them as a committee.
The issues of vacancies, also we regard them as challenges. That is why we are saying as the portfolio committee and as the ANC that they must be implemented and the vacancies must be filled.
House Chairperson, also as the ANC We recommend that the Minister of Sport, Arts and Culture consider all the issues raised in the report. We believe that it is important to consider the report despite reservations from the DA and the EFF.
So, I do not know why they are deliberating on this report because they reserved their own right not to speak on this report who were part of the committee. However, when were busy with the debate they were busy speaking and making inputs on the report. Hon House Chairperson, we support this report.
Thank you, House Chairperson. [Time expired.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, before I move on, hon Kwankwa, you used the word “amasela” which have been ruled out of order in the past.
Did you refer to any members in this House when you used the word?
Mr N L S KWANKWA: No. I did not, but if the shoe fits, they can wear it.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No hon member then you must withdraw that remark.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: No but ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No, you must withdraw the remark.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: What must I withdraw the shoe?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, you must withdraw the remark.
You now want to justify what you said.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): And you were pointing to hon members.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: No but ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, withdraw the remark or leave this House.
Mr N L S KWANKWA. Hon House Chairperson, you are not going to intimidate me.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Then you leave this House please!
Mr N L S KWANKWA: I am not going to leave this House until I have ... [Inaudible.]
Mr E MTHETHWA: [Point of order.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Sargent-At-Arms please assist the hon member to leave this House!
Mr N L S KWANKWA: No, but why am I being bullied!
What am I withdrawing?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Sargent-At-Arms ask the member to leave this House, please!
He is clearly defying what I am telling him to do!
Mr N L S KWANKWA: What are you saying?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Please leave this House!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Leave this House!
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Hlalani nale Ndlu yenu ingabhadlanga. La mas... [Ngokungavakaliyo.]
ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILEYO: Awubhadlanga nawe.
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): hon members, order!
Hon members you see you sit here and you sit and joke with the members on the podium and then insults are thrown and then you rise on points of order.
You must conduct the debate in a way that is consistent with the Rules of this House. As far as possible while you can interject, do not throw insults or accept things that are not consistent with the Rules of this House. I will make a ruling and I will ask anyone to leave without any fear or favour.
On what do you want to rise hon member?
Mr E MTHETHWA: Hon House chairperson, I want to appreciate what you are saying, but it should not be selective.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member take your seat. Take your seat!
Hon member, take your seat! Hon member, take your seat! Take your seat!
Question Put.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON BASIC EDUCATION ON PERFORMANCE OF DEPARTMENT OF BASIC EDUCATION FOR 2022-23 FINANCIAL YEAR
There was no debate.
Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: House Chair, we move that the report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr B B NODADA: Chairperson, the Auditor-General’s report shows that the department has failed to learn lessons from the past years. Eighty-one per cent of Grade 4s cannot read for meaning in any language. The Deputy Minister tried to justify this by saying that we are failing because we are measuring ourselves against the best in the world. Well, you are supposed to.
Teachers cannot read. They fail tests for the subjects that they teach, all while the ANC-aligned SA Democratic Teachers’ Union, Sadtu, protects the mediocre teachers and in doing so,
destroys the poorest children’s education. Thousands of learners are still subjected to pit toilets and overcrowded classrooms with dangerous infrastructure. Most schools don’t have libraries, laboratories or Wi-Fi. The ANC government has literally turned schools into graveyards. The ANC has failed to build quality schools in 30 years, hence they are targeting schools that still function instead of fixing the
20 000 broken schools. They have sleepless nights when they have not broken something that works.
A total of 3,4 million youth are not in education, employment or skills training. Seven in 10 young people are unemployed because the ANC government chose to focus on quantity over quality outcomes. Young people need an education that will give them skills to participate in the economy, not your platitude on decolonisation.
Fellow South Africans, your child has double the chance of being able to read for meaning in the Western Cape than anywhere in South Africa. Our schools don’t have pit toilets and we build quality schools in 65 days. Schools have Wi-Fi and quality teaching is monitored by the independent School Evaluation Authority so that your child gets the best education. We focus on quality outcomes and not quantity.
Let’s fire failing Minister Motshekga and end the ANC’s oppression in 2024. Vote for the DA to bring the Western Cape’s excellence to your child’s future. The DA does not support this report. I thank you.
Mr E MTHETHWA: House Chairperson, the EFF rejects the report. Year after year our schooling system faces huge problems in relation to the readiness of the school system to create a conducive environment for teaching and learning. To this day, overcrowding is a major issue. Many learners in township and rural schools are packed like sardines in classrooms, making it impossible for teachers to pay attention to the learning needs of each child. Many of these schools do not have sufficient learner support materials such as textbooks and other enablers such as laboratories for science. It reminds me of my days when I was at school imagining what a laboratory was like.
We also know that the lack of sufficient school security to guard and protect learners, and especially black schools from vandalism ... Had all these concerns been addressed by the department, we would not have had a situation where many schools were torched and destroyed by ANC-connected tenderpreneurs who hoped to be given tenders to refurbish the
same schools. Had the department paid attention to what the EFF had always advocated, that all schools across the country must have the same minimum requirements to allow for the same quality of education, we would not be where we are today.
The past few years have exposed the department as essentially not caring about the education of black children. The selling of alcohol exposé proposed by the Basic Education Laws Amendment Bill is one of those which shows that they don’t care about black people, and that is targeted at black schools.
Black children are still left behind when compared to schools that cater for predominantly white children who have all the necessary infrastructure to ensure that learning is conducive. Therefore, we as the EFF reject this report as it comes way to late and offers no solution to problems faced by ... [Inaudible.] ... Limpopo and across the country. We reject the report.
Mr S L NGCOBO: Hon Chairperson, the mismanagement of funds within the Department of Education has significant implications, affecting both the audit findings outlined in the report and raising serious concerns about the proposed
budget cuts as outlined by the Minister of Finance during the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, MTBPS.
The audit findings in the report reveal a distressing reality of material irregularities stemming from the mismanagement of funds within the department. Issues such as noncompliance, fraud, theft or the misuse of public funds are disgraceful, especially given the decline in South Africa’s education sector.
The report contains serious recommendations to strengthen our education system against the corrosive effects of the misappropriation of resources. The IFP has long advocated for enhanced quality assurance, rigorous internal audit reviews and robust consequence management to address these issues. The impact of financial mismanagement extends beyond audit findings, influencing budgetary decisions that shape the future of education in our country. The mismanagement of funds within the Department of Education leads to financial strain, necessitating cost-containing measures. The proposed budget cuts outlined in the MTBPS become a painful consequence of mismanagement, forcing the government to reduce spending and repay debts.
Our education system, as a result of mismanagement by the government, has faced cuts to essential programmes and initiatives. Vital programmes such as the Life Skills Grant and the Maths, Science and Technology Grant are compounded by the mismanagement of funds. The result of mismanagement means that our people and innocent children are facing service- delivery failures. The reduction of the Education Infrastructure Grant, crucial for our schools' physical foundations, is particularly alarming as an inconsiderate neglect of our people's needs.
In conclusion, addressing mismanagement is not only a fiscal imperative but a moral obligation to our nation's youth. I thank you, hon Chairperson. I ... [Inaudible.]
Afrikaans:
Dr W J BOSHOFF: Agb Huisvoorsitter, die sogenaamde Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, [Begrotingsoorsig- en Aanbevelingsverslag] proses word vanjaar deur twee sake oorskadu, die Basic Education Laws Amendment Bill [Wysigingswetsontwerp op Basiese Onderwyswette] en besnoeiings wat met die tussentydse begroting aangekondig is.
Die Basic Education Laws Amendment Bill beplan om onderwys grondliggend te verander, te transformeer in ANC speak [praat]. Die 1996 kompromie dat die staat onderwysinhoud bepaal en die gemeenskap skole bestuur, word verbreek. Die staat wil albei rolle vervul. As rede word aangevoer dat kinders toegang tot skole geweier word om voorreg te handhaaf. Die VF Plus het deurgaans daarop gewys dat die probleem nie by fiktiewe leë oud model C-skole lê nie maar by die staat wat versuim om skole te bou. Maar nee, die Basic Education Laws Amendment Bill sal die probleem oplos deur skole wat hulself goed bestuur, van daardie reg ontneem word. Nou, terwyl Afrikaanse skole vol is, terwyl kinders in landelike gebiede in oorvol klasse skool gaan en put toilette steeds algemeen voorkom, word infrastruktuur betiding besnoei.
Terwyl die bevolking groei maar die ekonomie nie, is dit die volgende geslag wat die spit afbyt. Die huidige ANC regering wat nie die ekonomie kan bestuur nie en wat nie geld het om skole te bou nie beteken dat die volgende geslag se regering van onderwysgeleenthede ontneem word. Die siekte en die medisyne hou nie verband nie. Die VF Plus verwerp hierdie verslag.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES - ON OFFICE OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE
The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, I
move that the report be adopted.
Declarations of Vote:
Mr J ENGELBRECHT: House Chair, the Office of the Chief Justice was set up a decade ago as an interim measure to give some effect to operational and institutional independence of the judiciary while the final court administration moral was to be decided on. Our judiciary has always been very clear on their view on the matter, namely, that we ensure true independence of the judiciary it should be allowed to operate separately from the executive arm of the state.
The manner in which the executive has since then both during the Fourth, the Fifth and the Sixth Parliament failed and refused to really deal with the issue is shameful.
Minister Lamola, even if he was at first the embodiment of the renewed hope in 2019 that the ANC could still produce fresh talent and efficiency was quickly molded into typical ANC
Minister always busy achieving very little. He is now the embodiment of the last hope that characterise this ANC government. In respect of this matter, he needed five years to be briefed on the issue to embark on new research of the topic and for the last two years for the matter to again be back at Cabinet level where of course all sensible ideas go to die.
In the meantime, this government department of the Office of the Chief Justice has also not done the judiciary any favors. The way in which it was not able to prevent some of its senior officials from seemingly positioning themselves to benefit from the contractual award for the rollout of online court systems and the way in which it obfuscated at every instance it had to be transparent and accountable on the issue has possible given the executive some new arguments in support of its reluctance to let it go off control of the budget of our courts a very sad state of affairs. The DA will not support the BRRR. Thank you.
Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, you caught me a bit off guard there. The IFP continues to have serious concern surrounding the expenditure of the budget by the Office of the Chief Justice particularly the issue of irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure. While commendable progress has been made
in resolving these issues during the current financial year, it remains an area that requires additional corrective action.
We have always maintained that as the IFP, hon Chairperson, that if we say that the Constitution provide for the independence of the judiciary as an arm of government then they should have a budget which they maintain and control. This budget still falls within the Department of Justice and hopefully in the Seventh Parliament with the new government and fresh breadth of fresh air will be able to change it around and give the Office of Chief Justice the independence that it requires. I would also like to draw attention to vacancies and the underspending in filling vacant posts in senior management and critical occupations.
Now I am glad that the committee has suggested that by 31 January 2024 the Office of Chief Justice should come up with the report and we await that.
Emphasis must also be placed for the importance of court modernisation and meeting targets for the roll-out and training of court officials in the system.
To this extent, hon Chairperson, it’s quite disturbing, you know, we all have respect for the judiciary. But it is quite disturbing to know that as we speak a senior magistrate who headed KwaZulu-Natal has been suspended and is facing charges for selling acting magistrate posts just like what is happening in education and everywhere else you are to pay to be a teacher, you had to pay to be a principal. This is what this particular magistrate is facing charges of.
I think the Office of the Chief Justice has had to really look at the question of acting posts at all levels of the judiciary. We would support this report because we believe that judiciary play a very important role in the South African situation.
Adv B J MKHWEBANE: Chairperson, over the years the EFF has consistently supported the Office of the Chief Justice and to safeguard its independence ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members. Hon Tseke?
Adv B J MKHWEBANE: ... because we were convinced then as we still are that the independence of the judiciary is an
indispensable component of the functional democracy. The Office of the Chief Justice was made a standalone department largely to emphasise the independence of the judiciary. This office and the head of the office, the Chief Justice himself, has the responsibility not only for the proper functioning of the judiciary but to keep the integrity of the judiciary functioning in this country. One of the means in which this can be done is for judges to speak through their judgements and not to be obsessed with cameras and malign political statements. Unfortunately, the current Chief Justice seems not to know whether he wants to be a judge or a politician. It is too easy for the Chief Justice to make politically charged statements whenever he gets an opportunity. Before his appointment, the Chief Justice was also said to be meeting politicians. After his appointment he commented on the politicians’ opinion.
Since he completed his State Capture Report, the Chief Justice has been going around with making political statements and saying the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, must charge the former President. What happens then when this matter comes before the Constitutional Court? What will he do? There is a backlog of around 306 cases with the current court roll of
756. Instead of focusing on that the Chief Justice is busy politicking.
Currently, even the underspending of R160 million, we reject this report and we will continue doing so for as long as Comrade Zondo is still the Chief Justice.
Mr F J MULDER: Hon Chair ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, would you just take a seat. There is a hand. I want to hear what the member want to say.
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Chairperson, I am rising on Rule 88. A member who was on the podium really dealt unfairly with the Chief Justice. I think she knows very well that the people who are judges cannot be castigated here. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, we are busy dealing with the budget of the Office of the Chief Justice by Rule 88. I want to read it to the hon member. It deals on reflections upon judges and certain other holders of public office and that: No member may reflect upon the competence or integrity of a judge of a superior court, the
holder of a public office in a state institution supporting constitutional democracy referred to in Section 194 of the Constitution, or any other holder of an office whose removal from such office is dependent upon a decision of this House, except upon a separate substantive motion in the House presenting clearly formulated and properly substantiated charges which, if true, would in the opinion of the Speaker prima facie warrant for such a decision.
We will then formally communicate with the hon member. It’s quite clear it is a reflection on the encumbered Chief Justice so that such a substantiated motion is presented to the House, failing which, the Speaker may decide on the appropriate action to be taken. Thank you very much.
Mr F J MULDER: House Chairperson, the Office of the Chief Justice plays a critical role in South Africa’s judiciary as an independent department. Although the department reports an overall vacancy rate of 10%, the vacancy rate in senior management is well above the norm at 12,8%, jeopardising the role of critical civil servants. The roll-out of the court online project to more superior courts has been delayed again since last year, and the lack of storage space in court files
has still not been resolved and the negative effect of load shedding on court procedures has still not been addressed.
Afrikaans:
Daar is geen merkbare verbetering in die departement sedert die lewering van die begrotingshersieningsverslag van 2022. Inteendeeel ... eerder tekens van agteruitgang en daarom kan die VF Plus die verslag voor die Huis nie steun nie. Dankie Voorsitter.
Ms W S NEWHOUDT-DRUCHEN: Hon Chairperson, the African National Congress supports the Budgetary Review and Recommendations Reports, BRRR, of the Office of the Chief Justice, OCJ. This Budget Vote in the Office of the Chief Justice is a reflection of the ANC’s commitment to an independent judiciary’s support for the rule of law, the doctrine of separation of powers and the administration of justice.
An independent judiciary is a fundamental element of democracy. People are the bedrock of our democracy. Institutions like the judiciary, which wields public power, are at their service. The judiciary is part of the transformation enterprise and the democratic project to make
our country reflect the text and living spirit of our Constitution. As the ANC, we reiterate our support for it.
The OCJ improved its audit outcome in the 2022-23 financial year achieving an unqualified audit opinion with no material findings, and no fruitless and wasteful or unauthorised expenditure was incurred in the 2022-23 financial year. The OCJ achieved 77,2% of its annual targets. These efforts are welcomed.
We also welcome the increase in employment of women in senior management, despite not meeting the target of 50%. We note that the OCJ has not been able to achieve its employment targets for persons with disabilities. We will, however, continue to monitor progress. We appreciate all the efforts of the OCJ in dispensing justice and ensuring a more equitable society. Thank you, Chairperson.
Question Put.
Agreed to.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES ON
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT, NATIONAL PROSECUTING AUTHORITY, INFORMATION REGULATOR, LEGAL AID SOUTH AFRICA, SPECIAL INVESTIGATING UNIT, SOUTH AFRICAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION AND PUBLIC PROTECTOR
Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: House Chair, I move that the report be adopted. Thank you.
Declarations of vote:
Mr J ENGELBRECHT: House Chair, today, the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development has struggled during the last five years to properly perform its functions, while its latest annual report suggests that its performance has improved during the 2022-23 financial year. The reality is that it has not fully recovered from some disasters that could have been prevented. It is also quite clear that what is claimed to be an improved performance was achieved primarily on the back of a decision by the department to lower its own performance targets.
With respect to all matters depending on technology, the Department of Justice is a very poor performer. The past year has yet again seen very little progress in the development of the integrated criminal justice system. Court recording
technology and audio-visual court services are helping to reduce the number of hours our courts are in session. Basic technology such as email and outbound phone services are often down, and to make matters worse, the department has not fully recovered from the ransomware attack that crippled online and electronic systems three years ago.
The National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, similarly continues to struggle to improve its performance. Specifically, one considers the reality that public confidence in its ability will only improve if and when the prosecution of a good number of high-profile state-capture corruption cases results in a conviction.
In the midst of these performance issues, Budget Vote 25 has not escaped the negative impact that all departments are now confronted with as a result of more than a decade of maladministration, inefficiency, waste, corruption and the loss of investor confidence caused by the fact that our country is not winning the fight against serious corruption and organised crime. A vicious self-reinforcing cycle which does not ... [Time Expired.]
Adv B J MKHWEBANE: Chairperson, the EFF rejects the budgetary review of the department. The backlog in the district courts is 26 965 and at the regional courts is 24 888 and the audit outcomes for the 9 audits within the portfolio have regressed over the administration term.
The Special Investigation Unit, SIU, has a budget of around R934 million and it’s owed up to R1,8 billion, and the SIU is also redoing a number of work which the Public Protector has been doing and the EFF will look into the mandate of the SIU. The Master’s Office is also in disarray because there are lots of complaints about delays. The South African Human Rights Commission has been stagnant with an unqualified opinion for the past four years. The fact that the institution is underfunded is not an excuse. Yes, R212 million is very minimal but they underspent with R8,6 million. The department’s failure to properly resolve... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Minister Chikunga, please switch off your microphone. Please proceed, hon member.
Adv B J MKHWEBANE: ... the failure of the department to adequately resource the Land Claims Court and the construction of the court itself is a disaster waiting to happen. They do
not know how many cases have been brought before the court in the last five years. As far as legal aid is concerned, the institution is under-resourced. The lawyers are overworked, so they can no longer take care of the cases. As far as the NPA is concerned, it is not able to prosecute complex cases or economic crimes such as the Steinhoff case, and cannot move on to the Phala Phala scandal because the institution has become a tool belonging to the hands of the politicians.
The fact that ABB Ltd also escaped prosecution through an R2,5 billion settlement sends a dangerous message that companies can behave unlawfully without facing consequences. On the Public Protector, the perception that the Public Protector is the president’s protector will be hard to shake as far as her role in the Phala Phala affair is concerned... [Time Expired.] Thank you, hon House Chair.
Prof C T MSIMANG: House Chairperson, are some concerning— issues regarding the country’s current state of justice. The Special Investigation Unit, SIU, which had previously achieved a clean audit outcome, has now regressed to a qualified audit or opinion due to material misstatements... [Interjections.]
...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order hon members!
Prof C T MSIMANG: ... and cash flaws.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Mkhaliphi, you are not on the floor. There is an hon member at the podium. No.
Restrain yourself, hon member. Stay calm. Continue, hon member.
Prof C T MSIMANG: ... There must be greater accountability and responsibility from accounting officers to rectify such improper financial processes and ensure proper financial management.
As highlighted by the Auditor-General, AG, the Human Rights Commission continued irregular expenditure without adequate consequence management. This is a matter of grave concern. It is alarming that in many cases the AG has disputed the programme indicators by the Human Rights Commission indicating a lack of transparency and adherence to proper procedures.
Regarding our courts, it is evident that officials working in the lower courts still require adequate Information and Communications Technology, ICT, resources and training. Such
logistical and ICT inadequacies only further burden the ongoing persistent backlogs and delays injustice delayed delivery. The slow progress in the department’s modernization and digitalization initiative hinders the delivery of justice as the famous saying goes “Justice delayed is justice denied.”
We must learn from best practices and justice systems worldwide and expedite modernization efforts. We must mitigate our challenges, such as the unavailability of officials, load shedding, water outages, and delays in obtaining interpretation services. And reports of chaotic conditions from the stakeholders ... [Time Expired.]
Mr F J MULDER: House Chair, if a member of the public or anyone else for that matter, reads a newspaper, watches news bulletin, listen to the radio or browse around on social media or any other online publication, they will often be confronted with reports on the National Prosecuting Authority, the Information Regulator, Legal Aid SA, Special Investigating Unit, and last but not least, hon House Chair, members, here it comes, the Public Protector, of course.
Afrikaans:
Hierdie vyf dissiplines waarvoor die die Kommitee oor Justisie veronderstel is om oorsig oor te hou, blyk onbestuurbaar te wees. Die algehele verval van die staat en die staatsdiens het onafwendbaar ook ’n invloed op hierdie departement.
Met ’n onbefondse spesiale ondersoekeenheid en ’n lomp uitgerekte verhoor en proses van die voormalige Openbare Beskermer, wat enige sepie op die TV oortref, kan die uitkomste van die departement nie ernstig opgeneem word nie. Die VF Plus kan nie hierdie versag ondersteun nie. Dankie.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: The NFP supports the report tabled here. However, we want to raise a lot of concerns, particularly on Legal Aid SA who seem to have reported a success performance. But on the ground, I must reiterate that this is not the case.
Legal Aid - in my view - wasting taxpayers’ money should not be given if there’s no prospect of success. Despite that, Legal Aid seems to understand it differently and they provide legal aid to anybody and everybody. I think we also need a rethink as far as legal aid, particularly to the criminals.
The legal aid that is being provided. They come, they violate the right or innocent people and then you must still pay for
legal aid to provide them with the service. We really need to look at that.
Another thing that the courts, particularly the magistrates court, don’t understand. The magistrate is the Pie Application. The Pie Application was not done to be abused, but it is being abused. It’s not unusual for a magistrate to postpone a Pie Application eight or 10 times before he even gives an order. And look at the cost. Look at the implication for landlords and things. So, the Pie Application and the prevention of illegal evictions was introduced to protect, particularly farm workers and things of that nature. But that has changed to a very large extent. If you look at the correctional services and the problems that we seem to be facing there, drug problems and things are controlling ... [Inaudible.] ... the correctional facilities, which we know is overpopulated as well.
The Master’s office, whether you talk about Cape Town, Durban, Pietermaritzburg, the problem is that there is a long delay in being able to even provide executive letters and things. So, there’s a whole lot of work that seemed to be done under the Department of Justice. But I think there needs to be more workshops and training for magistrates to understand their
responsibilities. Landlords are getting fed up. People are getting fed up. Every time they go, matters are getting postponed. They got to leave work, they got to run there ... [Time expired.]
Ms N H MASEKO-JELE: House Chair, the ANC rises in support of the Budgetary Review and Recommendations, BRRR on Justice and Correctional Development. The Department of Justice and Correctional Development and other entities and institutions receive their budget allocations under the Justice and Constitutional Development Budget Vote. These entities include the following: National Prosecuting Authority, Information Regulator, Legal Aid SA, Special Investigating Unit, Public Protector SA and SA Human Rights Commission. We appreciate the department’s efforts in improving its audit outcome from a qualified opinion to unqualified with findings.
The Guardian’s Fund, President Fund, Justice Administration Fund and Legal Aid SA sustained unqualified opinions with no findings for 2022-23. We note also the regression of the Public Protector SA and SIU audit outcomes from clean audit outcomes. We encourage the entities to work on improving as they are both critical in our fight against maladministration and corruption. Legal Aid SA continues to play a critical role
in ensuring that justice is dispersed. It provides legal representation which is an element of access to justice. For the 22nd consecutive year, it received a clean audit.
Budget cuts are gravely concerning, and any budget cut on Legal Aid SA would negatively impact on court coverage and the delivery of legal aid services to indigents and vulnerable persons. We appreciate the great levels of collaboration and
... The ANC supports the report. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
The House adjourned at 16:06.
Audio
No related